Pietrangelo Watch

[Guilt Trip]

So if the ask is 9 mill, can the Leafs do it? Should they?

Personally, I think it's an incredibly risky move the way the team is constructed. I'd reluctantly pass.

It's a tough call because you're going to have to get rid of in or around Nylander's money to make it work, but you're getting a bonafide #1 D man.

Yeah, but you're getting a #1D who will likely begin a decline, while giving up a very young forward who will likely maintain or improve. I know they're in win-now mode, but they're painting themselves into massive corner. Any injuries to key players, and they're sunk with no depth to backfill.

If they could move Nylander for a young defenceman for which they could get more or less equivalent value, that would be something I'd investigate, but I doubt they'd end up with significant cap savings to fit pieterangelo on top of that. I dunno. I can see the appeal, don't get me wrong, but you'll have 20M in Tavares and Pieteranglo in a few years that can't be moved (assuming an NTC) of which you'll likely lament the situation.

No disagreeing with you at all. This is what makes it so intriguing. And yes AP will be 31 in Jan but will his game fall off the cliff? Duncan Keith is 37 and can still play. Giordano is up there. I mean can we get 5 good years out of him on a front loaded, cough cough, signing bonuses, and then potentially trade him down the road for a to team that wants cap hit, not actual salary? Get the popcorn out.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Just to add. If this was Hedman we were talking about, would anyone hesitate? Asking because he's 11 months younger. I know I wouldn't so is Hedman that much better the AP?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

So if the ask is 9 mill, can the Leafs do it? Should they?

Personally, I think it's an incredibly risky move the way the team is constructed. I'd reluctantly pass.

It's a tough call because you're going to have to get rid of in or around Nylander's money to make it work, but you're getting a bonafide #1 D man.

Yeah, but you're getting a #1D who will likely begin a decline, while giving up a very young forward who will likely maintain or improve. I know they're in win-now mode, but they're painting themselves into massive corner. Any injuries to key players, and they're sunk with no depth to backfill.

If they could move Nylander for a young defenceman for which they could get more or less equivalent value, that would be something I'd investigate, but I doubt they'd end up with significant cap savings to fit pieterangelo on top of that. I dunno. I can see the appeal, don't get me wrong, but you'll have 20M in Tavares and Pieteranglo in a few years that can't be moved (assuming an NTC) of which you'll likely lament the situation.

No disagreeing with you at all. This is what makes it so intriguing. And yes AP will be 31 in Jan but will his game fall off the cliff? Duncan Keith is 37 and can still play. Giordano is up there. I mean can we get 5 good years out of him on a front loaded, cough cough, signing bonuses, and then potentially trade him down the road for a to team that wants cap hit, not actual salary? Get the popcorn out.

Definitely agree. It's a weird scenario when someone as good as the guy can actually get to market and you have to consider whether or not its a good move. I guess it's the flat cap and the economy that really takes the wind out of comparing to Keith, etc. Those guys' contracts don't look quite so bad as they age as the cap has increased and the % goes down, but that very likely might not be the case here.

Anyway, it could be moot if it ends up in a stamkos. I don't think things has "broken down" quite as much as advertised.

 

[Frank E]

I look at it like would I trade Nylander at $7m X 4 years, then he's UFA, for Pietrangelo at $9m X 7 years (when he'd be 37 at contract maturity)?

Given where the Leafs' defense vs. offense is at, I say yes.  Pietrangelo doesn't seem to have any big injury issues, plays 25 minutes per game, scores very well, is RHD, and is a team captain.

So if you ask me if I'd sign Pietrangelo to that contract, and get the proceeds of trading Nylander (futures, maybe a goalie prospect, maybe another great d-man prospect)?  I'm all in.

There's always going to be inherent risks, but Pietrangelo is a pretty solid bet.

 

[L K]

I think the big determine factor for me would be what return you get for the guy we send out.  If we are getting pennies on the dollar on the trade I don?t think it is worth it.  If we get fair value for say Nylander then that could be a good piece coming back plus some prospect depth.  I mean if we get a second good defenseman to add to Pietrangelo that does become very enticing

 

[Bullfrog]

I look at it like would I trade Nylander at $7m X 4 years, then he's UFA, for Pietrangelo at $9m X 7 years (when he'd be 37 at contract maturity)?

Given where the Leafs' defense vs. offense is at, I say yes.  Pietrangelo doesn't seem to have any big injury issues, plays 25 minutes per game, scores very well, is RHD, and is a team captain.

So if you ask me if I'd sign Pietrangelo to that contract, and get the proceeds of trading Nylander (futures, maybe a goalie prospect, maybe another great d-man prospect)?  I'm all in.

There's always going to be inherent risks, but Pietrangelo is a pretty solid bet.

I'd make that move. And it really pains me to say that; Nylander is frigging awesome. I'd imagine you'd get a pretty good return for Nylander though.

When's the last time the Leafs have had a defenseman of Pietrangelo's caliber?

 

[Joe S.]

I think the big determine factor for me would be what return you get for the guy we send out.  If we are getting pennies on the dollar on the trade I don?t think it is worth it.  If we get fair value for say Nylander then that could be a good piece coming back plus some prospect depth.  I mean if we get a second good defenseman to add to Pietrangelo that does become very enticing

If Kapanen was worth a first you?d have to think Nylander will command a significant haul.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I look at it like would I trade Nylander at $7m X 4 years, then he's UFA, for Pietrangelo at $9m X 7 years (when he'd be 37 at contract maturity)?

Given where the Leafs' defense vs. offense is at, I say yes.  Pietrangelo doesn't seem to have any big injury issues, plays 25 minutes per game, scores very well, is RHD, and is a team captain.

So if you ask me if I'd sign Pietrangelo to that contract, and get the proceeds of trading Nylander (futures, maybe a goalie prospect, maybe another great d-man prospect)?  I'm all in.

There's always going to be inherent risks, but Pietrangelo is a pretty solid bet.

I'd make that move. And it really pains me to say that; Nylander is frigging awesome. I'd imagine you'd get a pretty good return for Nylander though.

When's the last time the Leafs have had a defenseman of Pietrangelo's caliber?

Leetch, I guess, though he was 35 when they got him. If you mean in his prime, probably Salming. I should add that AP is not as good as either Salming or Leetch in their prime.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I look at it like would I trade Nylander at $7m X 4 years, then he's UFA, for Pietrangelo at $9m X 7 years (when he'd be 37 at contract maturity)?

Given where the Leafs' defense vs. offense is at, I say yes.  Pietrangelo doesn't seem to have any big injury issues, plays 25 minutes per game, scores very well, is RHD, and is a team captain.

So if you ask me if I'd sign Pietrangelo to that contract, and get the proceeds of trading Nylander (futures, maybe a goalie prospect, maybe another great d-man prospect)?  I'm all in.

There's always going to be inherent risks, but Pietrangelo is a pretty solid bet.

I'd make that move. And it really pains me to say that; Nylander is frigging awesome. I'd imagine you'd get a pretty good return for Nylander though.

When's the last time the Leafs have had a defenseman of Pietrangelo's caliber?

Leetch, I guess, though he was 35 when they got him. If you mean in his prime, probably Salming. I should add that AP is not as good as either Salming or Leetch in their prime.

Salming was the Leafs best ever D man. Loved watching him play.

 

[Highlander]

Lord I agree, if we had two Salming's on our blue line this coming year, then plan the parade. Too bad they broke the mold with him.

 

[princedpw]

If Pietrangelo is on the table, I?d have to ask myself whether team is better with him + Marner?s/Nylander?s return in a trade.  Otherwise there?s just no one on the 3rd and 4th lines and no injury replacement depth.

 

[princedpw]

I look at it like would I trade Nylander at $7m X 4 years, then he's UFA, for Pietrangelo at $9m X 7 years (when he'd be 37 at contract maturity)?

Given where the Leafs' defense vs. offense is at, I say yes.  Pietrangelo doesn't seem to have any big injury issues, plays 25 minutes per game, scores very well, is RHD, and is a team captain.

So if you ask me if I'd sign Pietrangelo to that contract, and get the proceeds of trading Nylander (futures, maybe a goalie prospect, maybe another great d-man prospect)?  I'm all in.

There's always going to be inherent risks, but Pietrangelo is a pretty solid bet.

I?d look at this kind of ?trade? as well.

 

[KadriFan]

Smart GMs don?t sign 30 year olds to long term deals.  Some idiot probably will but I sure hope it?s not the leafs

 

[Guilt Trip]

Lord I agree, if we had two Salming's on our blue line this coming year, then plan the parade. Too bad they broke the mold with him.

They certainly did. Unbelievable player and tough. The crap he had to put up with. My favourite player ever.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_71KMpMP8qA

 

[dappleganger]

Smart GMs don?t sign 30 year olds to long term deals.  Some idiot probably will but I sure hope it?s not the leafs

Boston signed Chara long term at 29 years old. Worked out for them.

Scott Niedermayer signed in Anaheim at 32 and took him to 36. That worked out pretty good too.

I'd say elite guys kinda change the equation.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Smart GMs don?t sign 30 year olds to long term deals.  Some idiot probably will but I sure hope it?s not the leafs

Boston signed Chara long term at 29 years old. Worked out for them.

Scott Niedermayer signed in Anaheim at 32 and took him to 36. That worked out pretty good too.

I'd say elite guys kinda change the equation.

They definitely do and AP is an elite D man.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Lord I agree, if we had two Salming's on our blue line this coming year, then plan the parade. Too bad they broke the mold with him.

I, too, would like two Hall of Fame defensemen on the blueline.

 

[cujo4ever]

I love the idea of AP right now, but I can't see that contract being a good thing in year 6 and 7.

I'd rather trade Nylander (as awesome as he is) for a good young defender and use the cap space to sign a few solid dmen.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I love the idea of AP right now, but I can't see that contract being a good thing in year 6 and 7.

I'd rather trade Nylander (as awesome as he is) for a good young defender and use the cap space to sign a few solid dmen.

In a deal like this you can't worry about year 6 or 7. Robidas Island if he falls of the cliff. Also Matthews is here for 4 more minimum, Marner 5, Nylander 4 and JT 5. Sign him and take action at it for the next 4 or 5 years.

 

[cujo4ever]

I love the idea of AP right now, but I can't see that contract being a good thing in year 6 and 7.

I'd rather trade Nylander (as awesome as he is) for a good young defender and use the cap space to sign a few solid dmen.

In a deal like this you can't worry about year 6 or 7. Robidas Island if he falls of the cliff. Also Matthews is here for 4 more minimum, Marner 5, Nylander 4 and JT 5. Sign him and take action at it for the next 4 or 5 years.

See, I think a smart GM worries about every year of the deal. Obviously it's hard to predict what shape the team/league will be in 6 or 7 year, but ideally you want to build a team that's competitive year in and year out. Look at Dallas this year, it's usually just a matter of a good team with a little bit of puck luck.