Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock

[Guilt Trip]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.

Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"

Dubas is a smart guy and I love that response. If I was basing things off the playoffs and the way both he and Dubas answered to the media, I'd fire Babs. He's not going to change. Even the players apologized. Fact is everyone did but Babs. I also found Matthews response interesting when asked about ice time. He looked pissed off to me and just said I don't deploy the players. That's the coaches job.

I'd like to be pissed off making what he makes playing the game he loves and never having to worry about money again. I understand his competitive nature but while Babs is the coach he makes the calls.
If the don't make it past round 1 next year, then Babs will go. I would sh_t a brick if Babs was fired now. Yes I would like to see Keefe at some point but we have to let it ride with a new look D.

Based on Babcock's answers today what faith have you that he would do anything differently next season? His answer to everything is "we need better players". Sorry Babs but you're not assembling a team Canada worthy roster with the salary cap, it's time to actually coach the roster you have and get the most out of it. That means playing your best players more and in situations where it's warranted.

Babs answers are troubling to me. Like I said. The players apologized, Nylander, Kadri and others. Dubas apologizes yet Babs thinks or talks like he did everything right. I don't think he'll change and that's why I'd get rid of him. This series is on him. I really loved the They adjusted, we adjusted, they adjusted, we adjusted line. Wtf are you talking about Mike? You didn't adjust to anything.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2019/04/25/kyle-dubas-i-thought-our-coaching-staff-did-a-good-job-this-year-with-our-group/

Yeah Dubas is a good pro.

Dubas is a Gud pro. He won't say publicly what he thinks. He's a smart guy that I'm sure is not overly happy with the coaching staff. We will see what he does but I trust in Dubie.

 

[Zee]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2019/04/25/kyle-dubas-i-thought-our-coaching-staff-did-a-good-job-this-year-with-our-group/

Yeah Dubas is a good pro.

Dubas is a Gud pro. He won't say publicly what he thinks. He's a smart guy that I'm sure is not overly happy with the coaching staff. We will see what he does but I trust in Dubie.

Based on Dubas's answer with regards to Shanahan I think he indirectly was saying he can't fire Babcock without Shanahan signing off which makes sense given that Shanny hired Babs.  I also think that if it doesn't happen now it will next season if the Leafs don't improve on this performance.  Babcock would know this so he's under the gun.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2019/04/25/kyle-dubas-i-thought-our-coaching-staff-did-a-good-job-this-year-with-our-group/

Yeah Dubas is a good pro.

Dubas is a Gud pro. He won't say publicly what he thinks. He's a smart guy that I'm sure is not overly happy with the coaching staff. We will see what he does but I trust in Dubie.

Based on Dubas's answer with regards to Shanahan I think he indirectly was saying he can't fire Babcock without Shanahan signing off which makes sense given that Shanny hired Babs.  I also think that if it doesn't happen now it will next season if the Leafs don't improve on this performance.  Babcock would know this so he's under the gun.

Absolutely. He has to know he's under the gun if he's back.
Here's another gem from Babs..
Mike Babcock had high praise today for Mitch Marner?s all-around improvement this season, then added: ?Mitch is going to be a real leader on our club. We need him and Auston to take a step in that area for sure. We think they're very capable of doing that.?

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/leafsnews/status/1121531872855711746

 

[hockeyfan1]

https://twitter.com/leafsnews/status/1121531872855711746

Looking at the twitter reaction, not many accepted his comments.  Goes to show how the fan base in general feels about this coach & management altogether.

There aren?t too many people out there that would shed a tear if Babs were to be fired.  Babcock, Dubas, and the team will be facing even greater pressure as well as expectations next post season, and it won?t matter who they play against (but especially if it is Boston again).

 

[Leaffan61]

Why waste another year? It's obvious this coach can't change.

 

[Zee]

Mike Commodore is a dolt by the way. Heard him on spittin chicklets podcast today.  He was ranting about how bad Babcock is, mentioned he never took blame for anything (this is true), but then they ask Commodore if he thought the Kadri suspension had any effect on the series.  "No, they lose with or without Kadri"...ok Mike.

He also mentioned how he didn't' really watch the series at all (because he claims it makes him sick watching Babcock on TV) so he only followed through highlights and articles about the series. Great analysis there!

 

[Bender]

Why waste another year? It's obvious this coach can't change.

This is Dubas' first full year and Shanny hired Babcock. I don't think they want to throw away that much money already. If Babcock doesn't change then Dubas can say he tried to get his methodology through to him and it didn't work. Babcock gets another year, it buys Dubas some time. If there aren't any results once Babcock is gone his head is next on the chopping block, rightly or wrongly, and I think it's way too soon for that.

If Babcock had to be re-upped this year it'd be a lot easier to walk away.

 

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/945844/2019/04/25/mike-babcock-needs-to-show-he-can-change-for-the-leafs-to-take-the-next-step/

The organization needs Babcock to unclench his fists in certain situations, to be more flexible and willing to try new things. He?s not averse to change, either. When he saw that Matt Martin was too slow, and that ready, speedy replacements were available in Johnsson and Kapanen, he turned the page and never looked back. He?s got a rap for being anti-analytics, too, but he?s not.

But he also needs to keep evolving, to appreciate his blind-spots and embrace change when it?s necessary.

 

[cabber24]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.

Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"

Dubas is a smart guy and I love that response. If I was basing things off the playoffs and the way both he and Dubas answered to the media, I'd fire Babs. He's not going to change. Even the players apologized. Fact is everyone did but Babs. I also found Matthews response interesting when asked about ice time. He looked pissed off to me and just said I don't deploy the players. That's the coaches job.

Matthews quote = Bab's fired

 

[Fanatic]

https://theathletic.com/945844/2019/04/25/mike-babcock-needs-to-show-he-can-change-for-the-leafs-to-take-the-next-step/

The organization needs Babcock to unclench his fists in certain situations, to be more flexible and willing to try new things. He?s not averse to change, either. When he saw that Matt Martin was too slow, and that ready, speedy replacements were available in Johnsson and Kapanen, he turned the page and never looked back. He?s got a rap for being anti-analytics, too, but he?s not.

But he also needs to keep evolving, to appreciate his blind-spots and embrace change when it?s necessary.

That is a good read and seems like the rational way of thinking. But darn it man.... I am a fan and have been for a very very long time. The Leafs have a window here where they can shoot for a Cup and I cannot fight away the feeling in me that Babcock cannot and will not get it done. Sheldon Keefe won a championship last year and is now over achieving this year in the playoffs. If Babcock stays then so be it, but if Dubas wants to go with Keefe I could get into that.

Maybe Keefe comes up as an assistant?

 

[cabber24]

https://theathletic.com/945844/2019/04/25/mike-babcock-needs-to-show-he-can-change-for-the-leafs-to-take-the-next-step/

The organization needs Babcock to unclench his fists in certain situations, to be more flexible and willing to try new things. He?s not averse to change, either. When he saw that Matt Martin was too slow, and that ready, speedy replacements were available in Johnsson and Kapanen, he turned the page and never looked back. He?s got a rap for being anti-analytics, too, but he?s not.

But he also needs to keep evolving, to appreciate his blind-spots and embrace change when it?s necessary.

It took him two playoff game losses to bench Komarov last year. Johnsson wasn't even dressed game 1.

 

[Zee]

https://theathletic.com/945844/2019/04/25/mike-babcock-needs-to-show-he-can-change-for-the-leafs-to-take-the-next-step/

The organization needs Babcock to unclench his fists in certain situations, to be more flexible and willing to try new things. He?s not averse to change, either. When he saw that Matt Martin was too slow, and that ready, speedy replacements were available in Johnsson and Kapanen, he turned the page and never looked back. He?s got a rap for being anti-analytics, too, but he?s not.

But he also needs to keep evolving, to appreciate his blind-spots and embrace change when it?s necessary.

That is a good read and seems like the rational way of thinking. But darn it man.... I am a fan and have been for a very very long time. The Leafs have a window here where they can shoot for a Cup and I cannot fight away the feeling in me that Babcock cannot and will not get it done. Sheldon Keefe won a championship last year and is now over achieving this year in the playoffs. If Babcock stays then so be it, but if Dubas wants to go with Keefe I could get into that.

Maybe Keefe comes up as an assistant?

I don't see that working with Babcock.  Everyone would know that Keefe is the heir apparent right next to Babcock and I doubt Mike would want that.  He'd be second guessing everything Keefe suggests and probably overriding him on any decision just because he can.  It's either Keefe takes over or he stays with the Marlies.

 

[Bullfrog]

I don't see that working with Babcock.  Everyone would know that Keefe is the heir apparent right next to Babcock and I doubt Mike would want that.  He'd be second guessing everything Keefe suggests and probably overriding him on any decision just because he can.  It's either Keefe takes over or he stays with the Marlies.

That's contemptible; both Babcock possibly doing that and your suggestion that he would.

 

[Zee]

I don't see that working with Babcock.  Everyone would know that Keefe is the heir apparent right next to Babcock and I doubt Mike would want that.  He'd be second guessing everything Keefe suggests and probably overriding him on any decision just because he can.  It's either Keefe takes over or he stays with the Marlies.

That's contemptible; both Babcock possibly doing that and your suggestion that he would.

What has Babcock ever done but deflect blame away from himself when anything goes wrong? I've never heard him take ownership of anything since he's been the coach so why is my suggestion a reach?  He does what he wants, takes credit for success and is blameless in defeat. That's all he's shown in his time here.

 

[Bullfrog]

Here's just one example of him taking the blame for something (admittedly a smaller thing):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4lSosWXOKo

"It's all my fault, let's not kid ourselves." ~ Babcock

He praises his players often.

He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

This is a line of criticism I honestly don't get. For starters, who even cares? I mean Dubas is jumping on all these grenades and we're sitting here knowing that it's all just media rhetoric to him. Not a single person heard him say it's his fault the PK struggled and thought "oh yeah that's right". Babcock just talks to the media in a different way, but it's not like he's ever been Ron Wilson-arrogant where he's constantly throwing his players under the bus or anything. Like you said, he's generally always trying to put a positive spin on things when talking to the media.

 

[herman]

He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

This is a line of criticism I honestly don't get. For starters, who even cares? I mean Dubas is jumping on all these grenades and we're sitting here knowing that it's all just media rhetoric to him. Not a single person heard him say it's his fault the PK struggled and thought "oh yeah that's right". Babcock just talks to the media in a different way, but it's not like he's ever been Ron Wilson-arrogant where he's constantly throwing his players under the bus or anything. Like you said, he's generally always trying to put a positive spin on things when talking to the media.

Confirmation bias

 

[Hobbes]

He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

This is a line of criticism I honestly don't get. For starters, who even cares? I mean Dubas is jumping on all these grenades and we're sitting here knowing that it's all just media rhetoric to him. Not a single person heard him say it's his fault the PK struggled and thought "oh yeah that's right". Babcock just talks to the media in a different way, but it's not like he's ever been Ron Wilson-arrogant where he's constantly throwing his players under the bus or anything. Like you said, he's generally always trying to put a positive spin on things when talking to the media.

Confirmation bias

There's also a lot of it spawned by those from the Fox News school of clickbait broadcasting. It doesn't matter if it's true, or taken wildly out of context, or deliberately misinterpreted and twisted to fit a reporter's narrative as long as it makes for an inflammatory story that generates lots of clicks from the rabid fans. They, in turn, for the most part don't know nearly enough to form their own opinion and/or can't be bothered to actually inform themselves on the subject so they'll suck it up (your confirmation bias on steroids).

How Shannahan, Dubas and Babcock choose to speak to the media probably has nothing at all to do with their internal discussions -- almost a Fight Club mentality -- and is purely whatever pablum they feel best suits their needs with the press. They've obviously decided that Mike's job is to cheerlead the process and the players, not throw them under the bus; and Kyle's going to take one for the team with his mea culpa act.

I would like to see one of both of the assistant coaches replaced (perhaps with Sheldon) to try something new. Kyle will have to try to do a bit more reshaping of the roster this summer, although he won't have much cap space to do anything once Mitch is signed.

I fully expect next year to be a step back during the regular season since we'll have some new/rookie defencemen to break in. We still should be a playoff team but we might have to fight a bit harder to lock down our spot and judging by this year's 8 first round winners maybe a bit of adversity/struggle at the end of the season is a good thing.