Please dont put Scrivens on that pedestal
- Thread starter Scrif
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maplesyrup
New member
Bender said:
Yeah, I'm not sure when "hey, this guy could be the backup next year" became any sort of pedestal.
Etiam Vultus
New member
He hasn't been coached by Francois Allaire yet. Be patient.
[/quote]
Here is a link to the story in the Star when Scrivens signed with the Leafs.
I did not bother to look up the link, but Owuya also stated that one of the reasons that he chose the Leafs when he was a free agent was because of his experience with Allaire.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs/article/801740--leafs-sign-another-quality-goaltender
Leafs sign another quality goaltender
April 29, 2010
Paul Hunter
As a college graduate, Ben Scrivens can obviously do the math. And he understands the Leafs have already been adding some impressive netminders to their depth chart.
But that didn't stop the Cornell goaltending star from signing a one-year entry level contract with Toronto on Wednesday. Not when it meant a chance to work with coach Francois Allaire.
Through a connection last summer ? one of Scrivens' teammates at Cornell was the son of former Swiss team coach Ralph Krueger ? the 22-year-old was invited as a last-minute fill-in at an elite goaltending camp in Switzerland run by Allaire; a camp attended in the past by the likes of Jonas Hiller, David Aebischer and Martin Gerber.
Scrivens was impressed.
?(Allaire) has got the reputation he has for a good reason. You don't have that many people develop without doing a whole lot of things in the right way,? Scrivens said in a telephone interview.
?I was very happy I was given the opportunity to work with him. ... He was very influential in the past season I had. I learned a ton in one week so I'm very excited to see what I can do with him this year.?
Scrivens, a native of Spruce Grove, Alta., had an excellent year with Big Red, finishing as one of the 10 finalists for the Hobey Baker Award as college player of the year. The graduating senior won the Ken Dryden Award as the top goaltender in the ECAC and had the nation's best save percentage (.934) and was tied for first in GAA (1.87).
In one remarkable stretch Scrivens recorded consecutive shutouts against Havard, Brown and Union and finished with the third-longest shutout streak in NCAA history, going 267:11 without allowing a goal.
Scrivens, at 6-foot-2, has the type of frame that Allaire likes to work with. He is expected to compete for a job with the AHL Marlies but that will be a tough team to make with James Reimer already there and newcomer Jussi Rynnas, a recent free-agent signing out of Finland, expected to land there as well. Scrivens is more likely to begin his pro career in the ECHL. Jonas Gustavsson and Jean-Sebastien Giguere are the incumbents with the Leafs.
?There are some world-class goalies I'm going to have to battle with to earn some playing time,? said Scrivens. ?But ... I'll trust management and the coaches to make the best decision (as to where I start).
?It's a huge developmental year for me.?
[/quote]
Here is a link to the story in the Star when Scrivens signed with the Leafs.
I did not bother to look up the link, but Owuya also stated that one of the reasons that he chose the Leafs when he was a free agent was because of his experience with Allaire.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs/article/801740--leafs-sign-another-quality-goaltender
Leafs sign another quality goaltender
April 29, 2010
Paul Hunter
As a college graduate, Ben Scrivens can obviously do the math. And he understands the Leafs have already been adding some impressive netminders to their depth chart.
But that didn't stop the Cornell goaltending star from signing a one-year entry level contract with Toronto on Wednesday. Not when it meant a chance to work with coach Francois Allaire.
Through a connection last summer ? one of Scrivens' teammates at Cornell was the son of former Swiss team coach Ralph Krueger ? the 22-year-old was invited as a last-minute fill-in at an elite goaltending camp in Switzerland run by Allaire; a camp attended in the past by the likes of Jonas Hiller, David Aebischer and Martin Gerber.
Scrivens was impressed.
?(Allaire) has got the reputation he has for a good reason. You don't have that many people develop without doing a whole lot of things in the right way,? Scrivens said in a telephone interview.
?I was very happy I was given the opportunity to work with him. ... He was very influential in the past season I had. I learned a ton in one week so I'm very excited to see what I can do with him this year.?
Scrivens, a native of Spruce Grove, Alta., had an excellent year with Big Red, finishing as one of the 10 finalists for the Hobey Baker Award as college player of the year. The graduating senior won the Ken Dryden Award as the top goaltender in the ECAC and had the nation's best save percentage (.934) and was tied for first in GAA (1.87).
In one remarkable stretch Scrivens recorded consecutive shutouts against Havard, Brown and Union and finished with the third-longest shutout streak in NCAA history, going 267:11 without allowing a goal.
Scrivens, at 6-foot-2, has the type of frame that Allaire likes to work with. He is expected to compete for a job with the AHL Marlies but that will be a tough team to make with James Reimer already there and newcomer Jussi Rynnas, a recent free-agent signing out of Finland, expected to land there as well. Scrivens is more likely to begin his pro career in the ECHL. Jonas Gustavsson and Jean-Sebastien Giguere are the incumbents with the Leafs.
?There are some world-class goalies I'm going to have to battle with to earn some playing time,? said Scrivens. ?But ... I'll trust management and the coaches to make the best decision (as to where I start).
?It's a huge developmental year for me.?
Optimus Reimer
New member
Leaf fans and the media tend to put some players on pedestals with little or no statistical support to actually defend the placing of those players on pedestals. Case in point Aulie. He was supposed to be a big key in that trade, and he played decently last season, but this season he got relegated to the AHL and eventually traded. So after 1 season a bunch of us were expecting big things from him.
Now I see quite a few people who are keen on Gardiner and Frattin. They have only played 1 full season and could end up busts, but I keep on hearing comments from the media folks who believe Gardiner will be a really good d-man, and some people like Frattin's potential, but right now I see Frattin as another 3rd line player.
Now I see quite a few people who are keen on Gardiner and Frattin. They have only played 1 full season and could end up busts, but I keep on hearing comments from the media folks who believe Gardiner will be a really good d-man, and some people like Frattin's potential, but right now I see Frattin as another 3rd line player.
Optimus Reimer said:
Gardiner is hard to judge. We may be seeing his ceiling this year. He may be the next Brett Hedican, which isn't bad, but when we are all hoping for Bobby Orr, it just doesn't measure up to our expectations, or what the Leafs need right now. I see Frattin as being a Martin Lapointe type. As long as he stays within his role, he should be one of the best within that role in the NHL.
Again, we can't get excited about Scrivens because the sample size is just too small.
LuncheonMeat
New member
bustaheims said:
Imagine how many draws he could win with that stick!!
LuncheonMeat
New member
Significantly Insignificant said:
Scrivens would no doubt kick out his left pad and break his fall... while stopping Crosby on a penalty shot at the same time.
J
Jalili
Guest
Optimus Reimer said:
The difference is Gardiner has actually earned a lot of credit for the way he's played this year. Aulie may have shown some promise in the stint he played last year but he was still overrated, right from the day Burke made the Dion trade and bragged about how Aulie was so good he wouldn't have made the deal without him.
I agree with your initial statement though. Schenn too was criminally overrated up until this season.
Kush said:
Are you kidding me? This is one of the most blatant Straw Man arguments I have seen on this board. Nobody thought Aulie was going to be Tyler Myers. Hell, he was criticized very harshly in the pre-season and I've been slagging on the guy all season for his poor play even in the AHL.
At the end of the day having hope for a player to play to his projections isn't equivalent to misguided expectations and pedestal placing. Nevermind the fact that, especially now, I think people are looking at the players very negatively, some overly so.
And tbh, Schenn hasn't been overrated since his rookie season. That one quip about him being captain someday was very premature, I agree, but he's been criticized ever since his sophomore year for showing a slow development curve.
Jeez Optimus, next you're going to say that anyone who isn't a Nihilist is a sycophant a la Howard Berger
J
Jalili
Guest
Bender said:
"This is one of the most blatant Straw Man arguments I have seen on this board."
I concur
Bender said:
Fine, not Bobby Orr, but whoever it was that compared him to Niedermayer, did him no favours. The kid looks alright, but he has played one season. If for example next year he only gets 15 points, people will be all over him about how he isn't a stud d-man. The simple fact of the matter is that he isn't a stud d-man now, and may never be. He may be something we already had which is Tomas Kaberle.
Looking back on the Gardiner thread there were many comparisons from the boards and from pundits but I don't see a lot of hard line 'he will be player x', just who he reminds them of.
Fact is a few notable hockey brains have said they see something special in him and that's worth noting. Also worth noting that many would have trouble trading him for less than something really special. I don't think he's been put on a pedestal so much as his talents have been recognized pretty thoroughly.
Personally I thought Jake improved all season long and find it hard to imagine we've seen his ceiling yet.
Fact is a few notable hockey brains have said they see something special in him and that's worth noting. Also worth noting that many would have trouble trading him for less than something really special. I don't think he's been put on a pedestal so much as his talents have been recognized pretty thoroughly.
Personally I thought Jake improved all season long and find it hard to imagine we've seen his ceiling yet.
Optimus Reimer
New member
Bender said:
Okay, you got me. I was going to start a 'whoever isn't a nihilist is like Berger' thread, but I can't now.
I am not sure where you get a comparison of Aulie to Myers because I never mentioned Myers name in my post. All I was trying to show was when Aulie came to the Leafs and played 40 games in 2010-11, he played very well, not getting caught out of position that much and defending against top players and holding his own. A lot of Leaf fans and media types were expecting big things from him, and people were referring to him as the bonus in the trade. He was placed on a pedestal, turned into a bust and is gone now. Too many Leaf players were put on pedestals, by fans and or media, who never amounted more to third liners at best.
Optimus Reimer said:
I know you didn't say Myers, I used Myers as a comparison because that would be putting him on a massive pedestal, which I don't think too many did.
Again, I don't see anything wrong with praising a player for good play. If they fall off they fall off, but if Aulie was good last year then he deserved some praise, but looking at the metrics, like I said, Aulie actually dragged Dion's stats downward, so he wasn't exactly a shutdown machine.
But anyway, at the end of the day praising a player for playing well and pedestal placing are two different things.
Bullfrog said:
At the same time can you really say this a Leafs fan/media thing? It doesn't take long to realize that even reading scouting reports on prospects on TSN gives the impression that many of these kids will be exceptional players - more than anyone here and anyone in the Leafs' specific media as far as I can tell.