Qualifier Game 5: Blue Jackets @ Leafs - Aug. 9th, 8:00pm - SN, TSN 1050

[L K]

Pietrangelo isn't getting less than 7 million.
The Leafs need to unload one of those big contracts if they are going to make a significant acquisition to make the team better.

It would sting... hard... but if Rielly is unloaded in addition to those other moves you could end up with:

Muzzin-Pietrangelo
Dermott-Holl
Sandin-Liljegren

That's a pretty hard sell for me.  Pietrangelo is better than Rielly but unless the Leafs are getting some really fricking good defense prospects to replace him.  The loss of two years of Rielly at 5 million is a tough pill to swallow when our 2nd and 3rd pairings have some pretty massive question marks.

 

[BrownRolo]

You guys this kind of just hit me. Hockey's kind of a stupid sport. It depends WAY TOO MUCH on luck. You look at those BJ goals and it's just throw it at the net and maybe we get lucky and it sneaks in. So often in hockey the less skilled team wins. Why? Because it's a crap shoot of pucks bouncing off people, sticks, skates.

Oh yeah also the Leafs never get powerplays. That would be a way to make sure skill wins. When the less talented team is constantly hacking, slashing, holding but the refs are never willing to call it.

On a whole I've become a little disillusioned with the sport.

Yuup.

There is a lot of randomness in it.  That said, there's not TOO much.  The best teams almost always come out of it at the end.

If Montreal or Chicago win another round or two I think it will look pretty bad on the NHL. Teams that were the 12th best in the regular season going far would be a bad look.

Imagine the 12th seed Knicks or Kings in the NBA had to play the 76ers of the Thunder. It would be a bloodbath.

 

[Frank E]

1.  I know it's only the day after, but I think maybe it could be argued that the Leafs also didn't have the physicality to get inside and create some chaos in the offensive zone around the blue paint.  You know, like Kadri used to do between suspensions.  I can't remember Korpisalo getting bumped/made uncomfortable at all at any point during the series.

2.  No doubt that the defense handling of the puck gave me fits a lot, and that needs to be addressed.  Pietrangelo would be fun, but by most calculations, you'd have to move out one of the bigger pieces...I actually think that's probably inevitable at this point, given the lack of depth.

3.  I think Dubas is going to get some heat, and deservedly so.  This team wasn't good enough at any point of the season, including this series.

 

[Bullfrog]

I disagree only with the 3rd point. I think they are good enough. Marner, for all the flack he's getting, is supremely talented and can crack a game wide open. He wasn't good enough. Possibly Nylander wasn't good enough (last night, though he was great all series). Tavares wasn't good enough (despite having some great stretches of play). Barrie wasn't good enough.

You obviously can't expect everyone to have their best game every game, but there just weren't enough players stepping up. And in the end, you have to look at your stars. I think Matthews is the only clear cut player who gets a pass and probably Andersen too.

 

[Deebo]

I disagree only with the 3rd point. I think they are good enough. Marner, for all the flack he's getting, is supremely talented and can crack a game wide open. He wasn't good enough. Possibly Nylander wasn't good enough (last night, though he was great all series). Tavares wasn't good enough (despite having some great stretches of play). Barrie wasn't good enough.

You obviously can't expect everyone to have their best game every game, but there just weren't enough players stepping up. And in the end, you have to look at your stars. I think Matthews is the only clear cut player who gets a pass and probably Andersen too.

I think Barrie is on Dubas. I don't think that trading Kadri was a bad idea but they traded their best (only?) trade chip last off season and brought in a defender who didn't fit the team's needs. The trade didn't address a weakness and hurt the centre position, hopefully Kerfoot is better next year.

 

[Chris]

I disagree only with the 3rd point. I think they are good enough. Marner, for all the flack he's getting, is supremely talented and can crack a game wide open. He wasn't good enough. Possibly Nylander wasn't good enough (last night, though he was great all series). Tavares wasn't good enough (despite having some great stretches of play). Barrie wasn't good enough.

You obviously can't expect everyone to have their best game every game, but there just weren't enough players stepping up. And in the end, you have to look at your stars. I think Matthews is the only clear cut player who gets a pass and probably Andersen too.

I think Barrie is on Dubas. I don't think that trading Kadri was a bad idea but they traded their best (only?) trade chip last off season and brought in a defender who didn't fit the team's needs. The trade didn't address a weakness and hurt the centre position, hopefully Kerfoot is better next year.

I figured Kadri was gone after that second playoff suspension (probably the right call, if you can't rely on the guy to maintain his composure when it counts most). But I don't think the return was adequate and Dubas probably should have waited to see if a better deal came along. Why the rush...worst case scenario you go into the next season and playoffs with Kadri and he has a chance to redeem himself. You can always make a questionable deal later.

The big issue the trade leaves me with, is how did management get it so wrong, regarding the needs of the team. Barrie was so bad defensively, and not all that effective on the PP. How did they miss that? It's like they never watched tape of his play before the trade.

 

[CatScratchFever]

It would sting... hard... but if Rielly is unloaded in addition to those other moves you could end up with:

Muzzin-Pietrangelo
Dermott-Holl
Sandin-Liljegren

But why would you trade our best D-man when the team is already struggling in that department? It's Rielly, Muzzin, and a bunch of pretty replaceable third-stringers.

If you want cap space, move Nylander (and Kapenen). This team has quite enough high-skill guys with no grit. That may work during the regular season (although that hasn't quite happened yet either) but come playoff time it's a very different game: one that rewards grabbing, cross-checking, running goalies, etc.

BTW, the refs who were in charge of game 5 were not the ones originally scheduled to officiate, they were replaced, clearly at league insistence, by a couple of guys who promised to put away their whistles, no doubt because of the OT penalty called in game 4.

I don't understand how someone as supposedly smart as Dubas does not realize that you can't just buy a bunch of skill guys and fill up the rest of the team with third-rate talent. You have to build a playoff team, and as has been shown over and over and over, the Leafs are not a playoff team.

 

[CatScratchFever]

The big issue the trade leaves me with, is how did management get it so wrong, regarding the needs of the team. Barrie was so bad defensively, and not all that effective on the PP. How did they miss that? It's like they never watched tape of his play before the trade.

Good question, since that was the book on Barrie, as you'll find many people on here knew at the time. Not to totally rag on Dubas, but I think sometimes guys like him get so high on their own smarts that they think they can turn a poor player into a good one. Kind of like the woman who keeps picking bad boyfriends in the mistaken belief she can "fix" them. That doesn't work, and neither did the Barrie experiment.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I disagree only with the 3rd point. I think they are good enough. Marner, for all the flack he's getting, is supremely talented and can crack a game wide open. He wasn't good enough. Possibly Nylander wasn't good enough (last night, though he was great all series). Tavares wasn't good enough (despite having some great stretches of play). Barrie wasn't good enough.

You obviously can't expect everyone to have their best game every game, but there just weren't enough players stepping up. And in the end, you have to look at your stars. I think Matthews is the only clear cut player who gets a pass and probably Andersen too.

I think Barrie is on Dubas. I don't think that trading Kadri was a bad idea but they traded their best (only?) trade chip last off season and brought in a defender who didn't fit the team's needs. The trade didn't address a weakness and hurt the centre position, hopefully Kerfoot is better next year.

Barrie is def on Dubas but Kadri had to go unfortunately. He had a huge hand in us losing the last few years with his idiotic suspensions. Don't forget that Dubas did have a trade with Calgary(Mark Jankowski, TJ Brodie) lined up but Kadri wouldn't waive to go there. Kadri also has a 10 team no trade list. Would that have worked out better? Who knows but we know that it didn't work for Barrie here. I have hope for Kerfoot turning into a good 3rd line centre.

 

[ZBBM]

I disagree only with the 3rd point. I think they are good enough. Marner, for all the flack he's getting, is supremely talented and can crack a game wide open. He wasn't good enough. Possibly Nylander wasn't good enough (last night, though he was great all series). Tavares wasn't good enough (despite having some great stretches of play). Barrie wasn't good enough.

You obviously can't expect everyone to have their best game every game, but there just weren't enough players stepping up. And in the end, you have to look at your stars. I think Matthews is the only clear cut player who gets a pass and probably Andersen too.

I think Barrie is on Dubas. I don't think that trading Kadri was a bad idea but they traded their best (only?) trade chip last off season and brought in a defender who didn't fit the team's needs. The trade didn't address a weakness and hurt the centre position, hopefully Kerfoot is better next year.

You, sir, are absolutely quite right, positively so.

 

[ZBBM]

It would sting... hard... but if Rielly is unloaded in addition to those other moves you could end up with:

Muzzin-Pietrangelo
Dermott-Holl
Sandin-Liljegren

But why would you trade our best D-man when the team is already struggling in that department? It's Rielly, Muzzin, and a bunch of pretty replaceable third-stringers.

If you want cap space, move Nylander (and Kapenen). This team has quite enough high-skill guys with no grit. That may work during the regular season (although that hasn't quite happened yet either) but come playoff time it's a very different game: one that rewards grabbing, cross-checking, running goalies, etc.

BTW, the refs who were in charge of game 5 were not the ones originally scheduled to officiate, they were replaced, clearly at league insistence, by a couple of guys who promised to put away their whistles, no doubt because of the OT penalty called in game 4.

I don't understand how someone as supposedly smart as Dubas does not realize that you can't just buy a bunch of skill guys and fill up the rest of the team with third-rate talent. You have to build a playoff team, and as has been shown over and over and over, the Leafs are not a playoff team.

Foligno's little dig at the Leafs reached Bettman's hearing aid, apparently.

 

[berserker]

We need a real power forward one of the Tkatchuk brothers would be ideal.
And a stay at home defensive D-man that can take care of his own zone.

 

[herman]

So basically a playoff team is one that cheats consistently enough that it's normalized.

 

[Highlander]

I'd do a Marner for Jones trade.

 

[Strangelove]

Pretty solid debrief - https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/08/10/game-5-review-columbus-blue-jackets-3-vs-toronto-maple-leafs-0/

I mostly agree.

There also seems to be a lack of maturity in the dressing room. It's easy to overstate things like "veteran presence", and so forth. But when you need old man Spezza to come out and punch heads before the guys respond and get fired up - even in an elimination game - something is wrong. They have lacked urgency all season. The previous comments from guys like Muzzin and Matthews attests to that.

 

[Frank E]

So basically a playoff team is one that cheats consistently enough that it's normalized.

Nah.

I think Keefe should have sent Clifford out there with Marner and Matthews in the third and told him to create havoc in front of Korpisalo.

They played on the perimeter when it clearly wasn't working.

 

[Andy007]

I must have been watching a different game. I'm very confused by the "Nylander was invisible" comments. I'm not saying he had his best game or anything, but I thought he was flying out there.

With zero hesitation, Marner would be the one I'd trade over Nylander. I'm not advocating for either being traded though.

He certainly wasn't all that great in game 5 but overall I thought Nylander was quite good. I saw some tenacious backchecks, he had two front of the net goals, four points and threaded multiple nifty passes/setups all series. Meanwhile Marner was dishing out more turnovers than Betty Crocker! I really can't fathom why the softer, less dangerous player with the extra $4million per price tag should be the one escaping more criticism.

 

[louisstamos]

So basically a playoff team is one that cheats consistently enough that it's normalized.

Nah.

I think Keefe should have sent Clifford out there with Marner and Matthews in the third and told him to create havoc in front of Korpisalo.

They played on the perimeter when it clearly wasn't working.

I think that was the one element they were missing - not Clifford per say, but a Patrick Hornqvist type.  Someone with hands and can play, but is willing to muck it up in front of the net.

The problem is, those types of players are hard to come by and highly coveted.  And for every Patrick Hornqvist, there's a few Lucic/Clarkson/Malone-types whose bodies break down as they get older and become a cap anchor.  You've got to either draft 'em, or get them somehow before their prime.

 

[berserker]

I must have been watching a different game. I'm very confused by the "Nylander was invisible" comments. I'm not saying he had his best game or anything, but I thought he was flying out there.

With zero hesitation, Marner would be the one I'd trade over Nylander. I'm not advocating for either being traded though.

He certainly wasn't all that great in game 5 but overall I thought Nylander was quite good. I saw some tenacious backchecks, he had two front of the net goals, four points and threaded multiple nifty passes/setups all series. Meanwhile Marner was dishing out more turnovers than Betty Crocker! I really can't fathom why the softer, less dangerous player with the extra $4million per price tag should be the one escaping more criticism.

Totally agree

 

[Andy007]

So basically a playoff team is one that cheats consistently enough that it's normalized.

Nah.

I think Keefe should have sent Clifford out there with Marner and Matthews in the third and told him to create havoc in front of Korpisalo.

They played on the perimeter when it clearly wasn't working.

Now that was something that I was thinking too, even at the start of the series: Clifford on Matthews' or Tavares' wing crashing the net, causing a distraction, bowling a few people over. I think that kind of play really would have complimented those lines. Maybe it was a result of his play, but I do feel that Clifford was improperly utilized since his acquisition.