Series 46: The Final Homestand - Red Sox @ Blue Jays

[L K]

Jays fall apart and are now down 6-4...sigh.  Gibbons is not a good coach.  I know that coaches have minimal impact on teams overall, maybe a handful of games one way or the other but I really do feel that he's a guy that trends on the neutral/negative side of things.

 

[TML fan]

Can't let Cecil face a right handed batter but thinks it's totally ok to let his closer sit on the bench getting cold for 20 minutes.

 

[Joe S.]

I'm not sure why Lowe can't be the setup guy... He's been pretty much flawless since he came here.

 

[Kin]

Can't let Cecil face a right handed batter but thinks it's totally ok to let his closer sit on the bench getting cold for 20 minutes.

Do you actually have any evidence that a closer is less effective in that situation or is this just more of your king of  hindsight act?

 

[L K]

Bautista hits a 2-run home run to bring it to 7-6.  Unfortunately Gibbons put Pompey in to pinch run for Encarnacion when he was on 3rd....and Matt Hague hits a 2-out double.

 

[Joe S.]

Sucks but you move on... Say what you want about the bullpen but the umpire stole a victory there.

 

[TML fan]

Can't let Cecil face a right handed batter but thinks it's totally ok to let his closer sit on the bench getting cold for 20 minutes.

Do you actually have any evidence that a closer is less effective in that situation or is this just more of your king of  hindsight act?

Do you have any evidence that I'm speaking in hindsight? I talk to people outside this message board, you know.

 

[TML fan]

But to answer your question, go read my post from the Yankees series. I believe it's a psychological thing. These pitchers have roles and they are fine tuned for those roles. When you take them outside those roles, I believe it has a psychological impact on them that makes them less effective. I don't think Osuna, for example, had the same adrenaline he would have coming in hot from the bullpen as opposed to sitting on the bench with a towel on his arm. People who are not used to doing things are going to struggle trying to do them. I don't think this is something that can be quantified statistically. Human element.

 

[Kin]

But to answer your question, go read my post from the Yankees series. I believe it's a psychological thing. These pitchers have roles and they are fine tuned for those roles. When you take them outside those roles, I believe it has a psychological impact on them that makes them less effective. I don't think Osuna, for example, had the same adrenaline he would have coming in hot from the bullpen as opposed to sitting on the bench with a towel on his arm. People who are not used to doing things are going to struggle trying to do them. I don't think this is something that can be quantified statistically. Human element.

If what you say is true then there'd be a notable drop off in performance when pitchers are used the way Osuna was used tonight.

So, in other words, no there is no evidence. The Jays lose, you're here to complain that they always do whatever it is that caused them to lose and I set my watch to it.

 

[Beowulf]

The Jays were 73-0 when leading after 8 coming into today.

Fire everybody.

 

[TML fan]

But to answer your question, go read my post from the Yankees series. I believe it's a psychological thing. These pitchers have roles and they are fine tuned for those roles. When you take them outside those roles, I believe it has a psychological impact on them that makes them less effective. I don't think Osuna, for example, had the same adrenaline he would have coming in hot from the bullpen as opposed to sitting on the bench with a towel on his arm. People who are not used to doing things are going to struggle trying to do them. I don't think this is something that can be quantified statistically. Human element.

If what you say is true then there'd be a notable drop off in performance when pitchers are used the way Osuna was used tonight.

So, in other words, no there is no evidence. The Jays lose, you're here to complain that they always do whatever it is that caused them to lose and I set my watch to it.

Can you account for every pitcher used in that way? Every team?

 

[Kin]

Just last week for instance, Osuna came on with one out in the 8th, walked the first hitter and then got the next two. Then he "got cold" and pitched a perfect 9th.

 

[Kin]

Andrew Miller has been used that way five times this year. The number of runs he's given up in those five appearances? Zero.

 

[Kin]

Can you account for every pitcher used in that way? Every team?

"I think the universe and everyone in it is controlled by a super intelligent Cat!"

"Do you have any proof of that?"

"DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF IT ISN'T?!?!?!?!?"

You're not even trying.

 

[TML fan]

Just last week for instance, Osuna came on with one out in the 8th, walked the first hitter and then got the next two. Then he "got cold" and pitched a perfect 9th.

Mmmhmmm....so it's works once and that's proof, but the 3 times it didn't work in the same timespan is...what?

 

[TML fan]

Andrew Miller has been used that way five times this year. The number of runs he's given up in those five appearances? Zero.

Really? Andrew Miller? You have all those teams to choose from and you pick arguably the best closer in the game to make your point, and I'm the one who's not trying?

 

[Leafaholic99]

Can you account for every pitcher used in that way? Every team?

"I think the universe and everyone in it is controlled by a super intelligent Cat!"

"Do you have any proof of that?"

"DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF IT ISN'T?!?!?!?!?"

You're not even trying.

 

[Joe S.]

Can you account for every pitcher used in that way? Every team?

"I think the universe and everyone in it is controlled by a super intelligent Cat!"

"Do you have any proof of that?"

"DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF IT ISN'T?!?!?!?!?"

You're not even trying.

From what I remember from Catholic school,  this is the basis of Christianity.

 

[L K]

Just last week for instance, Osuna came on with one out in the 8th, walked the first hitter and then got the next two. Then he "got cold" and pitched a perfect 9th.

Mmmhmmm....so it's works once and that's proof, but the 3 times it didn't work in the same timespan is...what?

Three isolated data points that don't prove a trend or establish any validity other than to say that bringing in a reliever over multiple innings doesn't work 100% of the time.  It's really not a difficult concept.

 

[TML fan]

Just last week for instance, Osuna came on with one out in the 8th, walked the first hitter and then got the next two. Then he "got cold" and pitched a perfect 9th.

Mmmhmmm....so it's works once and that's proof, but the 3 times it didn't work in the same timespan is...what?

Three isolated data points that don't prove a trend or establish any validity other than to say that bringing in a reliever over multiple innings doesn't work 100% of the time.  It's really not a difficult concept.

I understand the concept. The fact that it works sometimes isn't any more proof than when it doesn't work.

Let me ask you this: How do you think you'd feel if your boss told you he needs you to come in early and work someone else's job when there are others capable of doing that job, and then stay the full day to complete your own?