bustaheims
Well-known member
First game on a west coast swing is often messy. No surprise this one was, too. Still, against a team like the Sharks, they should be better.
Sharks vs. Maple Leafs - Mar. 27th, 10:30pm - SN, TSN 1050
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
herman
Well-known member
PP cooking once they
- made Marner the ‘D’
- Which opened room for Knies at the front
- And made Nylander one of the carriers (with Matthews) and half wall primary
- And that skillset let them make drop pass 2 optional at the carrier’s discretion
- Bumping to Knies at the line instead of Tavares on entry
- And the set PP iso’d Nylander instead of Matthews
- Basically every player slot got an improved option from the shuffle, except Matthews (net front, bumper, left wall, D)
herman
Well-known member
Ozzie
Active member
You can't coach "the drive to win" into players. The ability to dig deep and have pride in your results is internal. The main guys don't have it (broken record).
This is a management and ownership issue.
Last night was a Super Fun game.... if it was in November. Last night was HILARIOUS... as a game in late March.
L K
Well-known member
The comeback in the final minute was great. They probably should have won it in OT with some of those chances. Overall Woll let in a few goals that he probably should have stopped. That was still another wasted point.
Now if they can win back to back against LA (that would be a solid win as LA is 26-3-4 at home) and Anaheim I think we can be satisfied with 5 of 6 on this trip. Dropping a point against San Jose just makes that much harder to do.
My concern though is that it seems like there is always an excuse for the team. They are tired. It's road trip. Travel out west. They just need to do a better job of taking care of business.
Now if they can win back to back against LA (that would be a solid win as LA is 26-3-4 at home) and Anaheim I think we can be satisfied with 5 of 6 on this trip. Dropping a point against San Jose just makes that much harder to do.
My concern though is that it seems like there is always an excuse for the team. They are tired. It's road trip. Travel out west. They just need to do a better job of taking care of business.
I don't buy that.
The core 4 could play on any Cup winner I've seen in the last 60 plus years and do well.
The core 4 got 16% of the ice time in the playoffs last year and it is so easy for the media to bump their ratings and subscriptions blaming them while ignoring those who got the other 84% of the ice time.
It appears after 70 games that they've figured out two lines with the recent promotion of McMann (who I admire from the journey he's taken but regard as a tweener between lines 2 and 3). And they're limping along with Matthews not at 100%.
After 72 games, what is the Cup winning 3rd line? 4th line? I'm not seeing it ... Help me out.
We have Tanev-McCabe as a Cup caliber pairing. But what do we have after that? I thought the world of Morgan Rielly ... until this season. When is he going to show up? Because of that, it is harder to access Carlo. Then we have two left feet with Benoit not playing as well as last year. I do not see it as a Cup caliber D.
The goalies looked pretty good in the first half. I don't have to look at the stats to back up what my eyes have seen since. They have fallen back to the pack. We have to hope one of them can rediscover their first half play. But confidence in that is kinda tough to find.
I think of Pat Quinn coming around '99. He looked at the roster. Saw a bunch of waterbugs and a goalie. And he came up with run & gun approach to get the most out of them. Berube comes in and declares 'we're going to play north-south hockey' before they've looked too closely at the roster - whereas Quinn used to design his system around the talent he had to work with. As such, I do not believe Berube has got the most out of the talent he had to work with. He made some concessions - letting Nylander be Nylander for example, etc But there has been a bit of a square peg in a round hole effort - trying to force fit the talent he inherited and has to work with into the system that he desires them to play. This team has not come together to exceed the sum of its parts. That too is not on the core 4.
Blaming this all on the core 4. I don't buy it for a second.
Basically the core 4 have proven over and over that they're not as good as they need to be to take up as much of the salary cap as they have. Now of course there are other complicating factors (covid limits on salary cap at the wrong time, management spending too many assets on rentals so now there is a dearth of young talent to fill out the rest of the lineup, etc). Maybe this playoff year will be different...with theoretically better goaltending and a tougher defense. But the defense has a hard time moving the puck against good forechecking so who knows. And the forwards for the most part still don't seem to have the dump/chase system completely figured out yet (or maybe they don't want to).
Beast mode JT, Marner playing for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, improved D and goaltending. It could be different...
Potentially or probably. Management plans on the cap were upset by Covid.
What they're individually paid is fairly close to where they should be.
But that doesn't jive very well with this claim
that attacks their character, etc
Definition of insanity: keep doing the same thing while expecting a different result. They had to change up players, system, etc. They tried. Made several credible moves. It is not all bad. But it doesn't seem to be coming together.
bustaheims
Well-known member
They definitely had to do something different, but, it's certainly a fair question to ask if they chose the right different path or swung too far in a different direction.
dappleganger
Well-known member
Changing Tavares from net front to the slot has allowed him to use his wrister from 15-20ft out. That has helped a lot.
Marner while not having a rocket of a slap shot set up two goals last night (one power play one extra attacker) with a shot from the point.
Ozzie
Active member
Bump this.
Its NOT a Core4 issue. They are who they are. It's a management and ownership issue.
The issue is Shanahan, representing Rogers & Tanenbaum (and before Bell) along with Dubas. I think Tre has done ok with the 16%/84% ratio he inherited.
It's very very very very very....very simple!
Andy007
Well-known member
I dunno, but when you look at the "Core Four" and their 82-game average based on their playoff numbers... man, those regular season numbers take a HUGE nosedive:
Marner- 14g 70p per 82 game avg 1216 TOI in 57 games
Matthews- 34g 72p per 82 game avg 1155 TOI in 55 games
Nylander- 30g 65p per 82 game avg 958 TOI in 54 games
Tavares- 26g 52p per 82 game avg 723 TOI in 38 games
Now obviously the style of play in the playoffs, particularly conerning the calibre of opponents the Leafs have played, are both factors in limiting some of the offense, but that top line is seeing some serious drop offs, despite playing so many minutes and with only each other. Nylander has seen a fair bit less ice time, and that also includes being saddled with Connor Brown, Marleau, Galchenyuk, Foligno and Kerfoot for large portions of that time, so his numbers imo are fairly impressive. If Marner and Matthews are, again, stuck to the hip this playoff run, they have to find another gear. They certainly are paid to play that way, anyway.
Marner- 14g 70p per 82 game avg 1216 TOI in 57 games
Matthews- 34g 72p per 82 game avg 1155 TOI in 55 games
Nylander- 30g 65p per 82 game avg 958 TOI in 54 games
Tavares- 26g 52p per 82 game avg 723 TOI in 38 games
Now obviously the style of play in the playoffs, particularly conerning the calibre of opponents the Leafs have played, are both factors in limiting some of the offense, but that top line is seeing some serious drop offs, despite playing so many minutes and with only each other. Nylander has seen a fair bit less ice time, and that also includes being saddled with Connor Brown, Marleau, Galchenyuk, Foligno and Kerfoot for large portions of that time, so his numbers imo are fairly impressive. If Marner and Matthews are, again, stuck to the hip this playoff run, they have to find another gear. They certainly are paid to play that way, anyway.
Arn
Well-known member
This is what I was getting at. You have to look at what the roster you have has and use its strengths. It just feels likes it’s been, as I think you’re alluding to, too rigid in saying this is the way we’re going to play.
I think again this is summing it up well. There 100% had to be a change, but has the change actually taken away some of the positive things that existed rather than finding a way to more usefully harness them
It was definitely time to move away from Keefe, it was a natural break that suited both him and the organisation. He definitely had a system that got the most out of his stars in certainly the regular season. Who’s to say there wasn’t a more subtle way to tweak that and supplement it with other roster moves that would have paid off rather than seeming to have nullified a lot of their strengths?
As for the narrative that they just don’t have the “drive to win” and it can’t be coached into them, that’s just quite frankly horseshit. You don’t even get to the NHL without that drive. You don’t score 70 goals in a season without that drive. You don’t notch 728 points in 647 regular season games and 50 in 57 postseason games with no drive.
It's not horseshit. And no one is saying they don't have any drive to win. They just don't appear to have enough. Think back to some previous Leaf greats. Can you tell me honestly that any of the core 4 has as much "drive to win" as Doug Gilmour had? Or Wendel Clark? Based on what I've seen, it's not even close.
It's a lot easier to pile up the points and look great during the regular season. The playoffs are a whole different animal. And so far they haven't shown that extra level of compete, and the results speak for themselves.