Stars @ Leafs - Dec. 2nd, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590

[GhostofPotvin29]

This game really highlighted for me the fact that the Leafs aren't a very good team.

This is the maddest I've ever been after a Leaf game.

Nicely done.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Thought Bozak was fantastic last night.  Obviously the Kadri line was as well.

I thought the Leafs pretty well controlled the game until the last 10:00 or so of the 3rd.  But again I'm not overly concerned about that, lots of teams when they're up 3 or more get sloppy.  I'm more concerned about how they play in closer situations.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The main thing with this arrangement is why Carlyle has decided to freeze Rielly out of any worthwhile PP time.  Makes no sense.

Last season Rielly had one of the highest scoring rates among defencemen on the powerplay. Granted, it was in very limited ice-time. Whereas Gardiner has actually had a fairly low scoring rate on the PP in his career so far, despite all his offensive talents. So if one of those two are going to sit out on the man advantage it would probably actually make more sense to sit Gardiner.

 

[herman]

Nice to see that 2nd line click. I've wanted to try Santorelli with Kadri and Lupul since training camp.

Sounds like JVR had another pretty ho-hum game. With Lupul seemingly taking back his spot at LW2, I wonder if Komarov should get a shot on the top line when he returns. Would be a nice reward for somebody who is tied for the 2nd most EV-points on the team. Put JVR with Holland (and Booth, for the love of god put Clarkson on the 4th line already), and that might wake JVR up while giving Holland a more skilled player to play with.

Kessel Boz-Lupul
Kom-Kad-San
Cla-holland JVR

You will never see Clarkson on the 4th line if RC is coaching. I honestly did not think he played that bad.
I dont think Komorav will ever be on the first line. doesn't have the hands IMO

Good call on that line, CtB.

Clarkson has played some 'first' line minutes with Bozak and JvR and his hands are worse than Komarov's, but I'd argue he was effective on that line because Bozak and JvR never deferred to him the way they do for Kessel and elevated their games as a result. Komarov would have similar effect.

It's good to see this team's secondary and tertiary scoring start to kick in, but when it inevitably dries up as all scoring does occasionally, the team flaws will be a little more glaring. It was evident (Malkin's line torched us, Benn's line put us on our heels all night), but hidden these past few games due to the scoring: we don't have a shutdown centre. A line of Komarov - Santorelli - Winnik would do the trick as they can play keep away with the puck, but they'll never really score (see first 10 games), and Santorelli is finding an effective role on the wing.

For now, that matchup's been tasked to JvR - Bozak - Kessel, which tires them out over the course of the season. Holland is a big body with good hands and speed, but he doesn't yet have the attention to detail on the other side of the puck. Who should we nominate to watch Patrice Bergeron videos all year long?

I don't completely understand the reason for having Kadri on the point on the PP, but if this is going to continue, I'd rather see Franson, our best PP defenceman this year, on the first unit with him as opposed to Phaneuf.  Then Phaneuf can come out with Gardiner on the second unit. 

I second this. Franson is slower, but pucks don't cross the line as often with him on patrol.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

For now, that matchup's been tasked to JvR - Bozak - Kessel, which tires them out over the course of the season. Holland is a big body with good hands and speed, but he doesn't yet have the attention to detail on the other side of the puck. Who should we nominate to watch Patrice Bergeron videos all year long?

I'd rather see the team play to their strengths. We don't have a line or centre capable of shutting down a Crosby, Malkin, or Seguin/Benn. What we can do is have 3 balanced lines that can score and not get too torched defensively. And hopefully 2 of those trios can go on any given night.

Swapping Komarov for JVR would help create that balance defensively too. JVR might be an effective penalty killer, but 5-on-5 he's cheating way too much for him to be effective defensively. Komarov would be a massive improvement in that area.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't see the issue with JVR?  On pace for 30 goals, on pace for more points than last season thus far.  He's on the ice for less GA/20 than Komarov thus far (haven't looked deeper into why that might be).  Seems like he's continuing on what he did last season.

 

[Stickytape]

Do we see Winnik move back up to the 2nd line, or Lupul? I've been eager to see Lupul-Kadri-Santorelli...

Did not disappoint!

 

[bustaheims]

The main thing with this arrangement is why Carlyle has decided to freeze Rielly out of any worthwhile PP time.  Makes no sense.  We have four capable defenceman that can play the point on the PP, which would open up Kadri again to use his playmaking skills down low.

It's all due to the insistence the Clarkson gets PP time. Thankfully, the top PP unit is producing, but the second one has a massive anchor on it. They also didn't get much ice time last night.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I don't see the issue with JVR?  On pace for 30 goals, on pace for more points than last season thus far.  He's on the ice for less GA/20 than Komarov thus far (haven't looked deeper into why that might be).  Seems like he's continuing on what he did last season.

Yeah he has not been bad at all, personally though I feel like he has been invisible a lot more this year.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't see the issue with JVR?  On pace for 30 goals, on pace for more points than last season thus far.

The points are there, but the performance isn't. At least not to me. He just doesn't look like he's skating as hard as he did last season. Granted I don't think Kessel has played his best hockey yet this season either. There were times when those two single-handedly (or double-handedly I guess) took over games last season and were dominant. I haven't seen that from them as a pairing yet. It's amazing they both have the point totals that they do so far.

He's on the ice for less GA/20 than Komarov thus far (haven't looked deeper into why that might be).

Komarov has one of the worst on-ice SA%'s in the league. Skaters don't really have much individual control over that. JVR's about average in that category so that would explain the difference in GA/20.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't see the issue with JVR?  On pace for 30 goals, on pace for more points than last season thus far.

The points are there, but the performance isn't. At least not to me. He just doesn't look like he's skating as hard as he did last season. Granted I don't think Kessel has played his best hockey yet this season either. There were times when those two single-handedly (or double-handedly I guess) took over games last season and were dominant. I haven't seen that from them as a pairing yet. It's amazing they both have the point totals that they do so far.

He's on the ice for less GA/20 than Komarov thus far (haven't looked deeper into why that might be).

Komarov has one of the worst on-ice SA%'s in the league. Skaters don't really have much individual control over that. JVR's about average in that category so that would explain the difference in GA/20.

By SA% do you mean SV%?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

By SA% do you mean SV%?

Yeah, sorry, I mess that up a lot even with goalies.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

By SA% do you mean SV%?

Yeah, sorry, I mess that up a lot even with goalies.

Yeah that would explain the discrepancy.  I still don't think JVR has been poor or needs to be moved down the lineup, and if he was I'd be concerned about Komarov going up against top D night in night out.  Maybe he could do it effectively, I'm not sure at this point.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Yeah that would explain the discrepancy.  I still don't think JVR has been poor or needs to be moved down the lineup, and if he was I'd be concerned about Komarov going up against top D night in night out.  Maybe he could do it effectively, I'm not sure at this point.

My idea to move JVR down the line-up wouldn't 100% be to demote/punish him. My ideal forward line-up would have 3 pairs of forwards to balance out the scoring. Bozak/Kessel is one, Lupul/Kadri is the other so far. If JVR and Holland looked good together and Komarov was able to be the 3rd guy on the top line then that would accomplish that goal.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Yeah that would explain the discrepancy.  I still don't think JVR has been poor or needs to be moved down the lineup, and if he was I'd be concerned about Komarov going up against top D night in night out.  Maybe he could do it effectively, I'm not sure at this point.

My idea to move JVR down the line-up wouldn't 100% be to demote/punish him. My ideal forward line-up would have 3 pairs of forwards to balance out the scoring. Bozak/Kessel is one, Lupul/Kadri is the other so far. If JVR and Holland looked good together and Komarov was able to be the 3rd guy on the top line then that would accomplish that goal.

If you do that would you drop JVR's ES TOI by a couple minutes per night?  Raise the 3rd line's by a couple minutes per night and drop the 1st?  Have 3 lines around 13:00/ES per night?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I don't see the issue with JVR?  On pace for 30 goals, on pace for more points than last season thus far.  He's on the ice for less GA/20 than Komarov thus far (haven't looked deeper into why that might be).  Seems like he's continuing on what he did last season.

Yeah he has not been bad at all, personally though I feel like he has been invisible a lot more this year.

JVR's kind of been the anti-Kadri to me this year.  To me, Kadri's looked good but hasn't yet been putting up the numbers, whereas JVR has been getting the statistical production while often being invisible to me.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If you do that would you drop JVR's ES TOI by a couple minutes per night?  Raise the 3rd line's by a couple minutes per night and drop the 1st?  Have 3 lines around 13:00/ES per night?

Right now the top-3 lines are all getting pretty even ice-time. The top line gets about a minute more than the 2nd and a couple more than the 3rd. I'd roughly keep things the way they are but when you have 3 lines like that you also kind of play the hot hand a little more. JVR would also continue to get time on the PP and PK, so it's not like his ice-time would drop to the level of a typical 3rd liner.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

JVR's kind of been the anti-Kadri to me this year.  To me, Kadri's looked good but hasn't yet been putting up the numbers, whereas JVR has been getting the statistical production while often being invisible to me.

Yeah, I think that's the best way to put it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If you do that would you drop JVR's ES TOI by a couple minutes per night?  Raise the 3rd line's by a couple minutes per night and drop the 1st?  Have 3 lines around 13:00/ES per night?

Right now the top-3 lines are all getting pretty even ice-time. The top line gets about a minute more than the 2nd and a couple more than the 3rd. I'd roughly keep things the way they are but when you have 3 lines like that you also kind of play the hot hand a little more. JVR would also continue to get time on the PP and PK, so it's not like his ice-time would drop to the level of a typical 3rd liner.

Oh yeah, I'm still not sure I want him off the third line.  Regardless of how he's played thus far I still want him getting those top line minutes at ES and going up against the top opposition.  Without him, even if Komarov plays bigger than he is, that top line loses a lot of size and I think JVR's size is something he always brings that doesn't necessarily show up on the score sheet but can effect the top line's offensive production nonetheless.

 

[freer]

If you do that would you drop JVR's ES TOI by a couple minutes per night?  Raise the 3rd line's by a couple minutes per night and drop the 1st?  Have 3 lines around 13:00/ES per night?

Right now the top-3 lines are all getting pretty even ice-time. The top line gets about a minute more than the 2nd and a couple more than the 3rd. I'd roughly keep things the way they are but when you have 3 lines like that you also kind of play the hot hand a little more. JVR would also continue to get time on the PP and PK, so it's not like his ice-time would drop to the level of a typical 3rd liner.

Oh yeah, I'm still not sure I want him off the third line.  Regardless of how he's played thus far I still want him getting those top line minutes at ES and going up against the top opposition.  Without him, even if Komarov plays bigger than he is, that top line loses a lot of size and I think JVR's size is something he always brings that doesn't necessarily show up on the score sheet but can effect the top line's offensive production nonetheless.

The team has been playing well, I mean for the first time in years we can roll four lines. IMO would not change anything while they are winning.