Steve Stamkos?

[herman]

Here's an article that insinuates what RedLeaf claimed earlier, but doesn't really cite where those voices came from.

Right so it's another article with "other people are saying this, let me explain why they're wrong."                                               

Precisely. I'm googling pretty hard to come up with something for RedLeaf's point but I can't seem to find anything concrete.

 

[Kin]

Please explain how that matters in the argument. I want to know where your coming from on this Nik.

The thing that you say people said we haven't been able to find anyone actually saying? Seems relatively self-explanatory when you're using people saying that as evidence that people frequently say wrong things about what's good for the rebuild.

 

[Redleaf]

Please explain how that matters in the argument. I want to know where your coming from on this Nik.

The thing that you say people said we haven't been able to find anyone actually saying? Seems relatively self-explanatory when you're using people saying that as evidence that people frequently say wrong things about what's good for the rebuild.

So if it can't be googled it didn't happen is your statement?

 

[Kin]

Precisely. I'm googling pretty hard to come up with something for RedLeaf's point but I can't seem to find anything concrete.

I'll let you in on a Magician's Guild secret. You don't ask that sort of question without more or less knowing the answer.

 

[Redleaf]

How many conversations about things don't make it to the Internet do you suppose?

 

[Bill_Berg]

How many conversations about things don't make it to the Internet do you suppose?

From good hockey minds that are on the radio at some point? Not many.

 

[Redleaf]

And the value of this is what, trying to prove that I'm lying about hockey people saying 'the Leafs are putting the cart before the horse hiring Babcock'!

You lost me on the reasoning for your determination to prove me wrong on this?  Other than just to be , well you know...a Nik

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm good either way, though I don't see the urgency in signing him. And though it is wise to be cautious, I'm optimistic Matthews is going to be a top-5 centre (top 10 at least) within three years. In which case, Matthews/Kadri is a very good 1-2. I think the larger need is on defense and in goal.

I don't think Kadri is good enough in that spot if the goal is a championship.

I hope Matthews is the Crosby or Thornton, but I'm less optimistic that Kadri can be the Leafs' Malkin or Pavelski.  This is kind of the rationale that I'm using to justify the Stamkos signing.

I'm still hopeful that Nylander could be that guy.  It's early, but I just don't know if he's good enough either.

You're probably not wrong, but assuming Marner is our Kane...

Though not in Malkin/Pavelski territory, Kadri would still be one of the best 2nd line centres in the league. Given his improvements in non-offensive areas and his physical play, I'm even more confident in stating that.

 

[bustaheims]

And this is all without signing Stamkos?

That's without adding anyone from outside the organization other than Matthews and a backup goalie.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Or none for the next 2 seasons.

And I'm okay with that.

Me too.

 

[Redleaf]

How many conversations about things don't make it to the Internet do you suppose?

From good hockey minds that are on the radio at some point? Not many.

Yeah. I'm not so sure about that. At some point most good hockey men answer questions on a radio show somewhere.

 

[bustaheims]

Or none for the next 2 seasons.

Without moving some contracts out, yeah. I mean, the Leafs could run with the cap overage carryover, but, it would mean little to no other improvement from outside the organization without shipping out money.

Basically, what it boils down to is, in order to make a big money signing work, other moves have to happen. Contracts need to be moved out with no salary retained or coming back in the deal - and, that means either removing talent or including a valuable asset to move bad money (or, hoping Vegas takes a significant contract of the team's hands in the expansion draft).

 

[Bill_Berg]

How many conversations about things don't make it to the Internet do you suppose?

From good hockey minds that are on the radio at some point? Not many.

Yeah. I'm not so sure about that. At some point most good hockey men answer questions on a radio show somewhere.

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying they're probably going to write about it too.

Even if people did claim Babcock would hurt the rebuild, they were wrong. That doesn't mean that people saying Stamkos will hurt the rebuild are wrong.

 

[Kin]

Though not in Malkin/Pavelski territory, Kadri would still be one of the best 2nd line centres in the league. Given his improvements in non-offensive areas and his physical play, I'm even more confident in stating that.

Keep in mind this is a partial list of #2 C's in the league:

Jeff Carter
Ryan O'Reilly/Jack Eichel
RNH
Ryan Kesler
Malkin
Brayden Schenn/Couturier
Whoever you want to call the #2 in Tampa
Kuznetzov
Logan Couture
Jonathan Huberdeau
Jason Spezza
Backes/Stastny
Mackinnon/Duchene
Krejci

Then there are some others who are pretty good. I really don't know where Kadri would rank but I'd guess it's roughly middle of the pack.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Or none for the next 2 seasons.

Without moving some contracts out, yeah. I mean, the Leafs could run with the cap overage carryover, but, it would mean little to no other improvement from outside the organization without shipping out money.

Basically, what it boils down to is, in order to make a big money signing work, other moves have to happen. Contracts need to be moved out with no salary retained or coming back in the deal - and, that means either removing talent or including a valuable asset to move bad money (or, hoping Vegas takes a significant contract of the team's hands in the expansion draft).

If we sit tight for 2 seasons, we'll have way more cap room and we'll know a lot more about what our current prospects are all about. That seems to be the right time to start considering big name FAs.

 

[Kin]

And the value of this is what, trying to prove that I'm lying about hockey people saying 'the Leafs are putting the cart before the horse hiring Babcock'!

I legitimately can't put it any simpler than I did when you asked me that before.

 

[Tigger]

Team building differs on all teams and "Lightning" usually doesn't strike twice.

He can be Shanny's third long term signed player and fit into the rebuild just fine.

For those that want to pass on him, only want to argue based on the failures that they find, not the successes.

He is the BEST player in his prime another team will have a chance to sign since Gretzky got traded to LA.  A distant 2nd being players like Hossa and Parise.

It is unprecedented that a player of HIS caliber makes it to free agency.

It is unprecedented the sheer number of top tier prospects the Leafs have slated to come in and play their rookie season, save the triplets of Tampa and we know what that did for them.

Cold feet to want this not to happen, with a focus of only the NEGATIVE potential.

9 more days until we get to talk to him...

Stop debating AGAINST a precedent when there are NONE that happened prior.

Ha, no.

Again, unknowns aren't positive or negative, they're unknown. The Leafs have two top tier prospects coming in, one that might not even play, not exactly unprecedented.

There are a lot of positives to not signing Stamkos, you haven't addressed any of them, just blithely cheerleading and damn the torpedoes for the most part.

Jeebus, this thing was on page 54 at the end of May.

 

[Frank E]

Or none for the next 2 seasons.

Without moving some contracts out, yeah. I mean, the Leafs could run with the cap overage carryover, but, it would mean little to no other improvement from outside the organization without shipping out money.

Basically, what it boils down to is, in order to make a big money signing work, other moves have to happen. Contracts need to be moved out with no salary retained or coming back in the deal - and, that means either removing talent or including a valuable asset to move bad money (or, hoping Vegas takes a significant contract of the team's hands in the expansion draft).

So I guess you're including Bozak, Lupul, and JVR?

 

[Tigger]

And this is all without signing Stamkos?

That's without adding anyone from outside the organization other than Matthews and a backup goalie.

Yup, the 'no cap issue' has been problematic from the start. Could you briefly outline the players that comprise that 17/18 cap commitment?

 

[bustaheims]

If we sit tight for 2 seasons, we'll have way more cap room and we'll know a lot more about what our current prospects are all about. That seems to be the right time to start considering big name FAs.

Yup - which is the position a lot of us have been supporting.