This has gotten off topic. There's a split in the thinking around whether or not Stamkos should be signed, and what his signing means. Maybe it's best just to wait till something happens on this front and then we will all go from there. I think it's pretty clear that the divide isn't going to be crossed.
Steve Stamkos?
- Thread starter sickbeast
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Bill_Berg
Active member
The debate is still worth having, and people may yet change their minds, not to mention the current fence sitters.
Signing or not signing Stamkos may be one of the biggest decisions the organization has ever faced. This thread is all hype, I say keep it going, but then i'm also the guy that watches a whole basketball game knowing that it's only the final 3 min that count.
Signing or not signing Stamkos may be one of the biggest decisions the organization has ever faced. This thread is all hype, I say keep it going, but then i'm also the guy that watches a whole basketball game knowing that it's only the final 3 min that count.
Bill_Berg said:
Sorry, I wasn't implying shut the thread down. I was just saying that maybe we should step back, take a deep breath, and wait the couple weeks until something happens.
It's definitely not an easy decision, and it's one that may be ultimately out of the Leafs hands. It may be that Stamkos doesn't even want to play in Toronto. We don't know for sure what plans Stamkos has, or what he wants going forward for his career. If he comes to the Leafs and says "I'll play for you if you give me this type of contract" then that's when the decision starts to fall on their shoulders.
groundskeeper willie
New member
I don't know if it's as pointless as all that. I used to be about 75% pro Stamkos. Winning the lottery and likely getting Matthews dropped that some but I was still leaning towards yes depending on how outrageous the numbers were.Significantly Insignificant said:
After following this thread (granted rather tediously at times) I'm leaning toward no now. If they do I won't be upset and if he'll sign here well below what he could get elsewhere then I'll be very happy, but like others have said this is unfortunately one year too early.
In a years time and the young guys are looking as good as we hope (and hopefully another high end defenseman has been drafted or traded for) then it would be a different story.
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
Bill_Berg said:
Indeed. It's annoying in the extreme to see caution and patience (that are both well justified) routinely portrayed as pessimism.
Redleaf
Active member
Bill_Berg said:
I think there are even more people confusing optimism with some drunken utopian outlook. Those people need to take the opportunistic viewpoints on this site for what they are. No one is saying this team is winning a cup anytime soon. We're just optimistic with the direction this team has taken for the first time in a dogs age. There's no need for all the backlash towards the optimists on this board. Fans are finally really excited about the future of this team. Is there really a need by some here to critique the excitement in a way that is demeaning to fans here?
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
RedLeaf said:
The thing is, though, is that I think every single person here, even those most portrayed as being pessimistic, is optimistic and excited about the team's future. It's frustrating that the injection of perspective, patience and caution are seen by some as just big downers.
This is a place for analysis and discussion. Thank God for a diversity of viewpoints, even those that we disagree with the most. There's a game on the ice and this is the game in the stands. We like some players more than others, but they all make the game what it is, both on the ice and here in the stands.
Bill_Berg
Active member
Yep. We're all happy with the way things are going. Best i've felt about the team since the Gilmour days, but doesn't mean I think it's time to load up on FAS, and that doesn't mean i'm pessimistic. Nor is it pessimistic to not count your chickens.
No one is saying anyone is a bust, or isn't going to help the team win at some point. That would be a negative attitude.
No one is saying anyone is a bust, or isn't going to help the team win at some point. That would be a negative attitude.
Kin
New member
RedLeaf said:
See, thing is this is 100% inaccurate revisionist nonsense. People here aren't optimistic for the first time "in a dog's age". People here were optimistic when Burke was hired, when Carlyle was hired, when the team made the playoffs in 2013, when Clarkson was signed...the idea that everyone here was glumly sitting around during those events and saying "Boy, this team has no hope, our prospects are no good. If only they'd start to rebuild" is bogus. The people who tend to be "optimistic" were just as "optimistic" then, lecturing all the "negative" people about how if we only realized how Luca Caputi was going to lead the team to the promised land we wouldn't be such downers.
I don't care if someone's generally optimistic or positive or whatever. I do think it's obnoxious for someone who's constantly and consistently wrong about the team to lecture people about how they should see things the way they do.
And, for the record, it does not take a lot of time to dig through someone's posting history(especially if you start at the back). And, in certain cases, once your there it does not take much time to find examples of that person being spectacularly wrong in their outlook for the team.
Al14
New member
Heroic Shrimp said:
I'm just cautiously optimistic! Some would say I'm a Negative Nancy. Over the years, since 1967, I've been downright let down by the Leafs over, and over, and over again.
I'll actually wait to see some positive results on the ice, on the scoreboard, and, in the standings, before I get too excited about the rebuild.
Too many things can go wrong before we see a lick of difference with our Leafs.
louisstamos
Active member
Highlander
Active member
Nik the Trik said:
Nik, no one doubts that you have a very high and perhaps a superior intellect on you opinions towards this board. Many of us are just long term, beaten down fans that want to see the team get better and even though you bring up Caputi and the excitement at the time, this was the ray of hope that us old timers had then and continue to hope for now. Hell, yesterday you dragged up a quote from Nutman from 2011 about his optimisim and gave him a big slap down. Perhaps good for you to do so, but I think I may voice some of the other's on this sites feelings, that you want to win at all costs, embarrass when you can and even drive some of the more sensitive from the site, (you are not the only one), but Nik for the sake of us all, a little compassion, a little less smack down, would be most appreciated and keep more of us around, who or whom may have a different impression of future events than you do. This site is supposed to be fun, not a war site.
Kin
New member
Group A: Our Position is right!
Group B: Actually, your position is wrong.
Group A: What? How dare you say our position is wrong, you idiot! We're right we're right we're right! It doesn't matter what you say, we're right!
Group B: Actually, if you look at the facts of the matter you're wrong.
Group A: *looks* Who cares about being right anyway! It's not about being right! It's just about opinions! Why do you have to be so mean?
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Group B: Actually, your position is wrong.
Group A: What? How dare you say our position is wrong, you idiot! We're right we're right we're right! It doesn't matter what you say, we're right!
Group B: Actually, if you look at the facts of the matter you're wrong.
Group A: *looks* Who cares about being right anyway! It's not about being right! It's just about opinions! Why do you have to be so mean?
Wash, rinse, repeat.
herman
Well-known member
I'm gone for two days and this is what happens? Haha!
I get where you're coming from, Highlander. This place is still fun to hang out in for me, largely because of both the enthusiasm for the team and the in-depth analyses that exceeds that which professionals are paid to perform. Naturally on a team like the Leafs, there is bound to be tension; I believe it can be a productive tension that is conducive to growth (like Nylander working on his game).
I think we also need to see things from the other group's perspective. They put in a lot of work to find and collate the facts and data into easily digestible posts that highlight their arguments to help us see their point of view. It's equally disrespectful to just hand wave their efforts aside to insist on an opinion than it is to slap someone down, and from what I've seen so far, the snippyness only shows up when the facts (or interpretation thereof) are dismissed without evidence.
I get where you're coming from, Highlander. This place is still fun to hang out in for me, largely because of both the enthusiasm for the team and the in-depth analyses that exceeds that which professionals are paid to perform. Naturally on a team like the Leafs, there is bound to be tension; I believe it can be a productive tension that is conducive to growth (like Nylander working on his game).
I think we also need to see things from the other group's perspective. They put in a lot of work to find and collate the facts and data into easily digestible posts that highlight their arguments to help us see their point of view. It's equally disrespectful to just hand wave their efforts aside to insist on an opinion than it is to slap someone down, and from what I've seen so far, the snippyness only shows up when the facts (or interpretation thereof) are dismissed without evidence.
McGarnagle
New member
Not that there's a problem, because the complaint is just holier than thou garbage, but the site really could benefit by naming Herman a moderator.
Just one group B jerk's opinion.
Just one group B jerk's opinion.
Highlander
Active member
Can't we build a Group C? 
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