Steve Stamkos?

[Kin]

I think he's coming to toronto.  I think this whole situation reminds me of babcock last summer.  He said all the right things but the longer it went on it just looked more and more like it was going to happen.  Even though people were saying why would babcock ever go to toronto?  It feels like that all over again.

In a sense I agree with this. It does strike me as similar to the Babcock situation in that if Toronto wants to pay Stamkos the most money, they'll probably land him.

 

[TBLeafer]

you guys are just so used to disagreeing with me since I've joined.

It's not personal. You just happen to espouse opinions that seem contrary to the facts on hand, or are phrased unclearly, and we all enjoy talking about the team. The people that agree with your opinions also get the same deal. A forum is not an echo chamber.

If you were being treated roughly (the way some treated you on your previous forum), we'd all call them out on it. If you don't like the arguments in return, work harder to post more robust arguments.

Opinions + Facts = Arguments

But its not the facts on hand that are being argued.  Its the opinions with the pigeon holed facts presented to support those opinions that you just happen to agree with.

it is NOT a fact that signing Stamkos will in any way hinder the rebuild.

 

[sneakyray]

The draft really can't get here soon enough...

haha...for sure

speaking of the draft.  anyone stream sportsnet online?  I'm planning on using the free 7 day trial to watch the draft.  is it like netfliz quality stream or what?

 

[TBLeafer]

I think he's coming to toronto.  I think this whole situation reminds me of babcock last summer.  He said all the right things but the longer it went on it just looked more and more like it was going to happen.  Even though people were saying why would babcock ever go to toronto?  It feels like that all over again.

In a sense I agree with this. It does strike me as similar to the Babcock situation in that if Toronto wants to pay Stamkos the most money, they'll probably land him.

Buffalo reportedly offered Babcock more money and a decade's worth of term.

 

[sneakyray]

I think he's coming to toronto.  I think this whole situation reminds me of babcock last summer.  He said all the right things but the longer it went on it just looked more and more like it was going to happen.  Even though people were saying why would babcock ever go to toronto?  It feels like that all over again.

In a sense I agree with this. It does strike me as similar to the Babcock situation in that if Toronto wants to pay Stamkos the most money, they'll probably land him.

so what do you think nik?  do you think they'll land him or not?  I think you're in the anti stamkos camp but I'm wondering if you actually think they'll pass or just hope they will.

 

[bustaheims]

I think he's coming to toronto.  I think this whole situation reminds me of babcock last summer.  He said all the right things but the longer it went on it just looked more and more like it was going to happen.  Even though people were saying why would babcock ever go to toronto?  It feels like that all over again.

The mechanics and implications of hiring a coach and signing a player are very different. Coaches don't impact the cap. Coaches can be removed at will, with no other teams involved. Coaches don't experience injury issues (at least, not in the same way - for instance, a coach with a broken leg could still coach). And, as Nik said, the Leafs landed Babcock largely because they offered him the most money. They could do the same with Stamkos, but the impact is significantly different, which makes everything substantially different from last summer with Babcock.

 

[ZBBM]

The draft really can't get here soon enough...

You didn't predict.  You have to do that.  The only way to end this oceanliner of a thread is to use predictions like a barge to hijack the thread and steer it into the Coastline of Despond, whereupon it sinks.

 

[herman]

you guys are just so used to disagreeing with me since I've joined.

It's not personal. You just happen to espouse opinions that seem contrary to the facts on hand, or are phrased unclearly, and we all enjoy talking about the team. The people that agree with your opinions also get the same deal. A forum is not an echo chamber.

If you were being treated roughly (the way some treated you on your previous forum), we'd all call them out on it. If you don't like the arguments in return, work harder to post more robust arguments.

Opinions + Facts = Arguments

But its not the facts on hand that are being argued.  Its the opinions with the pigeon holed facts presented to support those opinions that you just happen to agree with.

it is NOT a fact that signing Stamkos will in any way hinder the rebuild.

Correct: it is not a fact that Stamkos will hinder the rebuild because that hasn't happened before. Supporting facts were posted to highlight how signing a player to that kind of money and term could be detrimental to the rebuild. Facts are the legs of your opinions in an argument. All I'm saying is, if you're tired of people not agreeing with your opinion, find stronger facts to support it.

 

[sneakyray]

I think he's coming to toronto.  I think this whole situation reminds me of babcock last summer.  He said all the right things but the longer it went on it just looked more and more like it was going to happen.  Even though people were saying why would babcock ever go to toronto?  It feels like that all over again.

The mechanics and implications of hiring a coach and signing a player are very different. Coaches don't impact the cap. Coaches can be removed at will, with no other teams involved. Coaches don't experience injury issues (at least, not in the same way - for instance, a coach with a broken leg could still coach). And, as Nik said, the Leafs landed Babcock largely because they offered him the most money. They could do the same with Stamkos, but the impact is significantly different, which makes everything substantially different from last summer with Babcock.

all very true.  I just remember thinking last year that there is now way babcock is coming to the leafs...but its who they should go after, hes the best guy available and if they don't get him they at least have to make him publicly say that he turned down a very good offer.  Then they got him.

it just reminds me of how I felt then.  I guess I'm saying my gut reaction is that the leafs will get stamkos...and it might do all of the thinkgs that the anti-stamkos camp has said, but its still my gut reaction at this point.

 

[herman]

I think he's coming to toronto.  I think this whole situation reminds me of babcock last summer.  He said all the right things but the longer it went on it just looked more and more like it was going to happen.  Even though people were saying why would babcock ever go to toronto?  It feels like that all over again.

The mechanics and implications of hiring a coach and signing a player are very different. Coaches don't impact the cap. Coaches can be removed at will, with no other teams involved. Coaches don't experience injury issues (at least, not in the same way - for instance, a coach with a broken leg could still coach). And, as Nik said, the Leafs landed Babcock largely because they offered him the most money. They could do the same with Stamkos, but the impact is significantly different, which makes everything substantially different from last summer with Babcock.

The most convincing difference for me:
Babcock said his wife wanted to come here. Stamkos doesn't have a wife.


:

 

[Kin]

so what do you think nik?  do you think they'll land him or not?  I think you're in the anti stamkos camp but I'm wondering if you actually think they'll pass or just hope they will.

I said back on page 109 that I'd guess Detroit. On a more vague sense I think he'll sign with a pretty good team and I wouldn't be surprised to see someone we're not talking about get into it somehow.

That said, while my Babcock comment was kind of a joke I do think a lot of it will come down to who offers him the most. My guess is that won't be the Leafs.

 

[Redleaf]

I think he's coming to toronto.  I think this whole situation reminds me of babcock last summer.  He said all the right things but the longer it went on it just looked more and more like it was going to happen.  Even though people were saying why would babcock ever go to toronto?  It feels like that all over again.

The mechanics and implications of hiring a coach and signing a player are very different. Coaches don't impact the cap. Coaches can be removed at will, with no other teams involved. Coaches don't experience injury issues (at least, not in the same way - for instance, a coach with a broken leg could still coach). And, as Nik said, the Leafs landed Babcock largely because they offered him the most money. They could do the same with Stamkos, but the impact is significantly different, which makes everything substantially different from last summer with Babcock.

You're trying to back your opinion with facts when all he really said was it 'feels' like the Babcock situation. See this is where using facts to back your opinion loses some of its luster. I mean, I get what you are doing, and you are good at it. I just don't feel the need to always get 'factual' when opinions are being expressed about things. Thats where some of the breakdowns happen in our debates on this forum. Does that make any sense?

 

[TBLeafer]

you guys are just so used to disagreeing with me since I've joined.

It's not personal. You just happen to espouse opinions that seem contrary to the facts on hand, or are phrased unclearly, and we all enjoy talking about the team. The people that agree with your opinions also get the same deal. A forum is not an echo chamber.

If you were being treated roughly (the way some treated you on your previous forum), we'd all call them out on it. If you don't like the arguments in return, work harder to post more robust arguments.

Opinions + Facts = Arguments

But its not the facts on hand that are being argued.  Its the opinions with the pigeon holed facts presented to support those opinions that you just happen to agree with.

it is NOT a fact that signing Stamkos will in any way hinder the rebuild.

Correct: it is not a fact that Stamkos will hinder the rebuild because that hasn't happened before. Supporting facts were posted to highlight how signing a player to that kind of money and term could be detrimental to the rebuild. Facts are the legs of your opinions in an argument. All I'm saying is, if you're tired of people not agreeing with your opinion, find stronger facts to support it.

How many proven top level NHL elites do the Leafs currently possess?

How many does Pittsburgh?  Did it hinder them?

We can afford one while our rookies on ELC's develop and we see what we have in them over the next few seasons I think.

No hindrance.

 

[Kin]

But its not the facts on hand that are being argued.  Its the opinions with the pigeon holed facts presented to support those opinions that you just happen to agree with.

it is NOT a fact that signing Stamkos will in any way hinder the rebuild.

Correct: it is not a fact that Stamkos will hinder the rebuild because that hasn't happened before. Supporting facts were posted to highlight how signing a player to that kind of money and term could be detrimental to the rebuild. Facts are the legs of your opinions in an argument. All I'm saying is, if you're tired of people not agreeing with your opinion, find stronger facts to support it.

I'm sorry, I won't let this go. The length of Clarkson/Horton's deal and whether or not the Leafs ate cap hit on the trade are very much facts.

 

[bustaheims]

all very true.  I just remember thinking last year that there is now way babcock is coming to the leafs...but its who they should go after, hes the best guy available and if they don't get him they at least have to make him publicly say that he turned down a very good offer.  Then they got him.

it just reminds me of how I felt then.  I guess I'm saying my gut reaction is that the leafs will get stamkos...and it might do all of the thinkgs that the anti-stamkos camp has said, but its still my gut reaction at this point.

Well, I imagine, another fundamental difference between Stamkos and Babcock is the very debate we're having now. There was a lot less opposition to the idea of bringing in Babcock. And, I imagine the Leafs' front office have had or are having a similar discussion we're having about Stamkos. I don't imagine they would have had quite the same level of discussion RE: Babcock.

 

[herman]

I think he's coming to toronto.  I think this whole situation reminds me of babcock last summer.  He said all the right things but the longer it went on it just looked more and more like it was going to happen.  Even though people were saying why would babcock ever go to toronto?  It feels like that all over again.

The mechanics and implications of hiring a coach and signing a player are very different. Coaches don't impact the cap. Coaches can be removed at will, with no other teams involved. Coaches don't experience injury issues (at least, not in the same way - for instance, a coach with a broken leg could still coach). And, as Nik said, the Leafs landed Babcock largely because they offered him the most money. They could do the same with Stamkos, but the impact is significantly different, which makes everything substantially different from last summer with Babcock.

You're trying to back your opinion with facts when all he really said was it 'feels' like the Babcock situation. See this is where using facts to back your opinion loses some of its luster. I mean, I get what you are doing, and you are good at it. I just don't feel the need to always get 'factual' when opinions are being expressed about things. Thats where some of the breakdowns happen in our debates on this forum. Does that make any sense?

Would you prefer people just say I agree or I disagree and leave it at that? Should every thread be a poll about our feelings? I think a better place for that type of expression is Facebook. Then people can respond emojiily. This is a forum, which is designed for discussion, and tension over different opinions is how stuff gets hashed out.

 

[bustaheims]

You're trying to back your opinion with facts when all he really said was it 'feels' like the Babcock situation. See this is where using facts to back your opinion loses some of its luster. I mean, I get what you are doing, and you are good at it. I just don't feel the need to always get 'factual' when opinions are being expressed about things. Thats where some of the breakdowns happen in our debates on this forum. Does that make any sense?

Nope. When an opinion belies the facts, it deserves to be challenged with those facts. If we're not using facts to support our opinions or to challenge other opinions, and if we're not open to discussions based around those facts and opinions, then what is the point of having a message board in the first place? Just for people to sound off on what they think? That's what Twitter is for.

 

[TBLeafer]

I think he's coming to toronto.  I think this whole situation reminds me of babcock last summer.  He said all the right things but the longer it went on it just looked more and more like it was going to happen.  Even though people were saying why would babcock ever go to toronto?  It feels like that all over again.

The mechanics and implications of hiring a coach and signing a player are very different. Coaches don't impact the cap. Coaches can be removed at will, with no other teams involved. Coaches don't experience injury issues (at least, not in the same way - for instance, a coach with a broken leg could still coach). And, as Nik said, the Leafs landed Babcock largely because they offered him the most money. They could do the same with Stamkos, but the impact is significantly different, which makes everything substantially different from last summer with Babcock.

You're trying to back your opinion with facts when all he really said was it 'feels' like the Babcock situation. See this is where using facts to back your opinion loses some of its luster. I mean, I get what you are doing, and you are good at it. I just don't feel the need to always get 'factual' when opinions are being expressed about things. Thats where some of the breakdowns happen in our debates on this forum. Does that make any sense?

There's a difference between all the facts and selective facts.

Those that see Stamkos continuing to decline still haven't justified that when I asked how they can come to that conclusion based on shrinking goalie equipment and him with one of the hardest, most accurate shots in the world. 

i have posed the question multiple times and all I got was silence.

 

[Redleaf]

You're trying to back your opinion with facts when all he really said was it 'feels' like the Babcock situation. See this is where using facts to back your opinion loses some of its luster. I mean, I get what you are doing, and you are good at it. I just don't feel the need to always get 'factual' when opinions are being expressed about things. Thats where some of the breakdowns happen in our debates on this forum. Does that make any sense?

Nope. When an opinion belies the facts, it deserves to be challenged with those facts. If we're not using facts to support our opinions or to challenge other opinions, and if we're not open to discussions based around those facts and opinions, then what is the point of having a message board in the first place? Just for people to sound off on what they think? That's what Twitter is for.

And some of the nastiness that goes along with it is all part and parcel to the debate too. Gotcha.

 

[sneakyray]

so what do you think nik?  do you think they'll land him or not?  I think you're in the anti stamkos camp but I'm wondering if you actually think they'll pass or just hope they will.

I said back on page 109 that I'd guess Detroit. On a more vague sense I think he'll sign with a pretty good team and I wouldn't be surprised to see someone we're not talking about get into it somehow.

That said, while my Babcock comment was kind of a joke I do think a lot of it will come down to who offers him the most. My guess is that won't be the Leafs.

cool thanks for clarifying...I hate detroit so I hope its not them.  For me I think I'll declare a dark horse since i have already said I think the leafs...so my dark horse is anaheim.