Steve Stamkos?

[groundskeeper willie]

I see NO problem with being a good now team, while the future gets built around the high picks we already have in place.

We don't need any more no matter how badly you might want them.

You can't know that right now. Matthews looks as legit as any prospect can, but he could still be more RNH than Toews. Marner and Nylander could be more JvR or Bobby Ryan than Kane. Just because they are drafted high and look promising doesn't guarantee elite players.

They could easily become very good but not good enough players. Brayden Schenn was once considered the best drafted player not in the NHL after all.

 

[Tigger]

Once this is resolved one way or the other, can we have some kind of forum meetup where we have a ritual burning of a printout of this thread while a mod simultaneously deletes it?

It's really too bad we don't have the monstrosity that was the Coyotes thread to wag a cautionary finger at.

 

[Kin]

It's really too bad we don't have the monstrosity that was the Coyotes thread to wag a cautionary finger at.

I don't even think the Coyotes one was as bad as the original Predators/Balsillie one or some of the lockout ones.

 

[TBLeafer]

 
It didn't hurt them.  They weren't anchors and the team kept progressing, with and without them and it didn't take too long to become a perennial playoff team and contender after Stamkos and Hedman were added.

They thought so much of Lecavalier they bought out the last 7 years of his 85 million dollar contract. They didn't "keep progressing". The Leafs are almost certain to struggle with consistent goaltending.

Facts.

Which didn't cost against the cap, so didn't stop them from progressing.  Plus, didn't he already win a Cup with Tampa?

 

[Kin]

Which didn't cost against the cap, so didn't stop them from progressing.  Plus, didn't he already win a Cup with Tampa?

It's like you're intrinsically incapable of staying on a topic. They didn't keep progressing, they clearly looked at his salary as a hindrance to what they wanted to do going forward. There's no way to spin a buy-out as anything else.

But go ahead, jump onto the next topic. Here, let me guess:

"Tampa's in Florida! Toronto isn't in Florida! Different places!"

 

[TBLeafer]

As RL stated, Babcock was a "win now" coach.  Stamkos has an EVEN MORE vested interest in becoming a Leaf and probably raised an eyebrow when Babs failed to sign with the Red Wings, just as he has failed to sign/turned down an offer(s) thus far with Tampa.

EVERY Toronto area born and raised fan of the team has an unwavering dream of seeing Toronto raise the Stanley Cup.  The allure as Stamkos watching this rebuild unfold as it is should show him that in his next 7 year term, the Leafs are going to be continually building toward that same goal. 

He will be in his prime and can contribute handily over the next 7 years to the Leafs achieving that goal. He would be the proven elite player and leader that would see the group of Matthews, Marner and Nylander along though their ELC and RFA years.

His contract would be tied to the remainder of Babcock's 8 year term.  Do you think Babcock possibly wants to win one during that time?

I'm not quite sure I see how that addresses my point rather than restating the premise that he'd feel a limited window of opportunity for winning with a Leaf crest on his jersey trumps a far greater likelihood of doing it with another team that is already in a competitive position.

The entire Leafs management team, Babcock included, has devoted the year to tempering fan expectations with a constant stream of "it's going to take as long as it takes...we're simply embarking on a process and we're going to hold to it no matter how long it takes." Does Babcock want to win a cup within the next 8 years? Sure. Does he expect to? Not if he's as smart as he's said to be. I think he, himself, stated that he simply intends for the team to be in the discussion when it comes to legitimate contenders towards the end of his current contract, and to remain in that discussion. The message has been pretty clear, though, from Brendan, Lou and Mike: it's going to take time.

If Stamkos has been listening, he'll know that by signing with the Leafs he'll be significantly reducing his shorter term chances of hoisting a cup as a player. After all, I'm sure he's aware that even at the peak of the Wings' success under Babcock, they still only won one cup and that was with a strongly established core of well-developed high-end players...something the Leafs utterly lack at this point in time. That's more a cautionary tale for Stamkos than a selling feature.

Maybe his motivation is an altruistic desire to help the Leafs toward that eventual goal, even if they don't achieve it until after his playing days are over. It's just not an attitude that most players with his elite skills tends to exhibit. Most, like Hossa, try to position themselves with the best possible chance to win.

I wonder how many here saw this back in April, concerning what Steven himself probably would prefer to do if he doesn't stay in Tampa.

Leafs Links: Ex-Lightning GM Brian Lawton could see Steven Stamkos ?very badly wanting to play in Toronto?

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/04/14/brian-lawton-steven-stamkos-toronto/

That's directly out of the mouth of his former GM. 

 

[TBLeafer]

Which didn't cost against the cap, so didn't stop them from progressing.  Plus, didn't he already win a Cup with Tampa?

It's like you're intrinsically incapable of staying on a topic. They didn't keep progressing, they clearly looked at his salary as a hindrance to what they wanted to do going forward. There's no way to spin a buy-out as anything else.

But go ahead, jump onto the next topic. Here, let me guess:

"Tampa's in Florida! Toronto isn't in Florida! Different places!"

A normal buyout is a hindrance to team building.  A compliance buyout not so much.

Next.

 

[Tigger]

Leafs have sucked for a decade.  Enough is enough.

And they aren't going to not suck if a 15 month rebuild isn't seen through. Much of that decade, and previous decades, was distracted or infected or whatever money term we could come up with that applies. Give it a minute, let's win 3 cups in 5 years ( you know, pretty much close to where Stamkos will be retiring, maybe after )hell let's win 4 in 7. When we talk about 'unknowns' it isn't a positive or negative issue, it means we don't know and let's find out. A 10.5 + cap bandaid might help sell crap, might help the team claw back to mediocrity, but it is way more likely to be a hindrance to living in the promised land than anything else given what we actually know.

The Leafs were 30th last year with no obvious star in their system, I get the notion of acquiring one but but if the Leafs sign a ufa like that before they can accurately gauge what they really have, it's just the same old same old.

 

[Kin]

A normal buyout is a hindrance to team building.  A compliance buyout not so much.

I didn't say his buyout was a hindrance. I said his salary was a hindrance which is why they bought him out. They knew the money was better spent elsewhere.

 

[Tigger]

Which didn't cost against the cap, so didn't stop them from progressing.  Plus, didn't he already win a Cup with Tampa?

It's like you're intrinsically incapable of staying on a topic. They didn't keep progressing, they clearly looked at his salary as a hindrance to what they wanted to do going forward. There's no way to spin a buy-out as anything else.

But go ahead, jump onto the next topic. Here, let me guess:

"Tampa's in Florida! Toronto isn't in Florida! Different places!"

A normal buyout is a hindrance to team building.  A compliance buyout not so much.

Next.

Nothing says love like here's 30 mil to go away.

 

[Tigger]

It's really too bad we don't have the monstrosity that was the Coyotes thread to wag a cautionary finger at.

I don't even think the Coyotes one was as bad as the original Predators/Balsillie one or some of the lockout ones.

I mean, 400 pages, on the Coyotes!

 

[Kin]

I mean, 400 pages, on the Coyotes!

I'll have you know I still remember some of the finer points of Arizona Bankruptcy law.

 

[bustaheims]

I wonder how many here saw this back in April, concerning what Steven himself probably would prefer to do if he doesn't stay in Tampa.

Leafs Links: Ex-Lightning GM Brian Lawton could see Steven Stamkos ?very badly wanting to play in Toronto?

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/04/14/brian-lawton-steven-stamkos-toronto/

That's directly out of the mouth of his former GM.

His former GM, who, in the interview, admits that he doesn't know any more about the Stamkos situation in Tampa than the people interviewing him, and also only indicates that he feels Stamkos would sign with the Leafs if the offers on the open market were roughly equal. Not exactly super compelling. I mean, for all we know, he's basing that off conversations he had with Stamkos 5 years ago, and a lot can happen in 5 years.

 

[Tigger]

I mean, 400 pages, on the Coyotes!

I'll have you know I still remember some of the finer points of Arizona Bankruptcy law.

I actually typed out a document from a pdf to show Moyes was a scumbag, granted I can type a bit, still!

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

 
It didn't hurt them.  They weren't anchors and the team kept progressing, with and without them and it didn't take too long to become a perennial playoff team and contender after Stamkos and Hedman were added.

They thought so much of Lecavalier they bought out the last 7 years of his 85 million dollar contract. They didn't "keep progressing". The Leafs are almost certain to struggle with consistent goaltending.

Facts.

Which didn't cost against the cap, so didn't stop them from progressing.  Plus, didn't he already win a Cup with Tampa?

If anything, I can't help but think that the fact that they bought him out for that much money when there wasn't a cap hit for doing so is an even greater cautionary tale in the cap world that exists now.

 

[Tigger]

I wonder how many here saw this back in April, concerning what Steven himself probably would prefer to do if he doesn't stay in Tampa.

Leafs Links: Ex-Lightning GM Brian Lawton could see Steven Stamkos ?very badly wanting to play in Toronto?

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/04/14/brian-lawton-steven-stamkos-toronto/

That's directly out of the mouth of his former GM.

His former GM, who, in the interview, admits that he doesn't know any more about the Stamkos situation in Tampa than the people interviewing him, and also only indicates that he feels Stamkos would sign with the Leafs if the offers on the open market were roughly equal. Not exactly super compelling. I mean, for all we know, he's basing that off conversations he had with Stamkos 5 years ago, and a lot can happen in 5 years.

It's also kind of awesome that it's Brian Lawton.

 

[Kin]

I mean, you can be sure that if I wanted to know what plans James Reimer had in free agency the first guy I'd call is Dave Nonis.

 

[herman]

I wonder how many here saw this back in April, concerning what Steven himself probably would prefer to do if he doesn't stay in Tampa.

Leafs Links: Ex-Lightning GM Brian Lawton could see Steven Stamkos ?very badly wanting to play in Toronto?

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/04/14/brian-lawton-steven-stamkos-toronto/

In case you hadn't heard yet: Brian Lawton (ex-GM of TBL) joined Naylor and Landsberg and chatted about Stamkos/Toronto http://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/lawton-stamkos-sees-himself-on-the-biggest-stage-1.471644

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/04/14/brian-lawton-steven-stamkos-toronto/

Lawton was asked if he thinks Stamkos will choose the Leafs if all offers on the open market are roughly equal:

I do. I really do. I think Steven is really close with this family. He loves Toronto. He loves Tampa, don?t get me wrong; he?s enjoyed it down there, he?s had wonderful experiences down there. But, in my opinion, I could see him wanting to play very badly in Toronto. I say that because I think Steven is a guy that wants big moments for himself to be involved in. He?s not a selfish guy; he?s very humble, but I still think that he sees himself on the biggest stage in the National Hockey League. And that would be Toronto. I don?t think it?s discomforting for him. Further to that, I think his family is there. The people he trains with are there. I think his agents are there. I think there is a lot of outside influence around him, that in their own view would like to see Steven in Toronto, too.

Next, on whether there are backchannels letting GMs know in advance about where a soon-to-be UFA player is leaning:

Absolutely. Believe it or not, obviously players, GMs and agents are bound to rules with regard to tampering, but all of those ancillary sources ? not withstanding agents ? are not. It?s possible that there are friends of Stamkos that are talking to him, suggesting to him he should be in Toronto and those same friends are friends with people who work for other teams in the National Hockey League. Those things do go on. That?s just the facts of life. They?re not bounds in any rules in regard to that. There?s really nothing [you can do]. The National Hockey League oversees all of this ? they watch it very closely.

Lawton then spoke to the possibility that tampering is or could become a factor:

Of all the people in the NHL, the one guy that will never break the rules on something like this is Lou Lamoriello. For him, more than anything, having had it happen to him way back when*? I just don?t see it. I?ve talked to Lou about what happened between the Blues and New Jersey Devils, pending fines and how that whole thing eventually came about. Lou?s integrity is off the charts and there?s just no way he would ever even remotely go down that path. There might be some other people in the NHL that do it, but Lamoriello will not be one of them.

* http://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/05/sports/hockey-devils-get-1.4-million-and-draft-pick-in-tampering-case.html

Lots of cool stuff from earlier in this thread. But don't dredge them up for response please.

 

[ZBBM]

Hey guys, whatcha talkin' 'bout here?  Can I join in?

 

[bustaheims]

Hey guys, whatcha talkin' 'bout here?  Can I join in?

Nope. We've got a strict policy against posters with more than one Z in their screen name.