Sun: Leafs interested in Joe Thornton

[CarltonTheBear]

Case in point, Jason Allison.

He's gonna finish that penalty shot any day now.

Man, that guy's only 39 years old. I figured he was about that age when he played with us. I know he was a god-awful skater and all, but I'm surprised he didn't stick around the NHL for another few seasons. He had a productive year with us (60pts in 66 games), had 102 points in 99 games with the Kings in the two seasons prior to that, and scored 95 with the Bruins the season before that.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Case in point, Jason Allison.

He's gonna finish that penalty shot any day now.

Man, that guy's only 39 years old. I figured he was about that age when he played with us. I know he was a god-awful skater and all, but I'm surprised he didn't stick around the NHL for another few seasons. He had a productive year with us (60pts in 66 games), had 102 points in 99 games with the Kings in the two seasons prior to that, and scored 95 with the Bruins the season before that.

Yep, for as slow as he was and as much as people ripped on him, he produced offensively.  If the Leafs didn't have abysmal goaltending that season I'm sure he wouldn't be regarded as bad as he is.  Was basically a PPG player from age 22 until he finished at age 30.  By the time he was on the Leafs he was more or less just a PP specialist though, 39 of his 60 points came on the PP.

 

[Kin]

Is it just me or does it seem like the big skilled players can play at a high level for longer?

I don't think it matters a ton. I mean, right up there with Jagr is Selanne who wasn't particularly big. Mark Recchi, who was downright small, played well into his 40's. Joe Sakic + Wayne Gretzky basically never slowed down.

And on the flipside there are big guys like Modano or Tkachuk or Shanahan that had pretty steep declines. Vinny Lecavalier looks just about done...and so on.

 

[Frank E]

Speaking of older centremen, anyone interested in a possible freshly bought out Brad Richards?

 

[bustaheims]

Speaking of older centremen, anyone interested in a possible freshly bought out Brad Richards?

Probably not. 3 years ago, he absolutely would have been an upgrade on the Leafs top 6, but, now, I'm not so sure. It's really hard to tell whether he's just flamed out in NYC or whether he was just a bad fit, but, either way, he's 34 and definitely on the downside of his career. He's not a long term solution, and, the Leafs really shouldn't be looking at short-term fixes.

 

[Kin]

Speaking of older centremen, anyone interested in a possible freshly bought out Brad Richards?

I mean, it's the same as every question out there. It depends on the price. Considering the state of the defense and the bottom 6, I don't think the Leafs can really afford to be paying UFA prices for players in the hope that they provide a marginal boost to the top 6. If Richards wants to come about the way Raymond did though, sure.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Speaking of older centremen, anyone interested in a possible freshly bought out Brad Richards?

Probably not. 3 years ago, he absolutely would have been an upgrade on the Leafs top 6, but, now, I'm not so sure. It's really hard to tell whether he's just flamed out in NYC or whether he was just a bad fit, but, either way, he's 34 and definitely on the downside of his career. He's not a long term solution, and, the Leafs really shouldn't be looking at short-term fixes.

I don't see the point.  Kadri is outproducing him offensively, and with what he'll probably come for I can't see being made up for in defensive play - unless it was real cheap.

 

[Corn Flake]

I would take Thornton over Richards in a heartbeat right now.  Production, contract (short'ish, controlled), health, consistency, etc are all the reasons.

 

[Kin]

I would take Thornton over Richards in a heartbeat right now.  Production, contract (short'ish, controlled), health, consistency, etc are all the reasons.

I think the question was contingent on Richards being bought out.

 

[Corn Flake]

I would take Thornton over Richards in a heartbeat right now.  Production, contract (short'ish, controlled), health, consistency, etc are all the reasons.

I think the question was contingent on Richards being bought out.

Oh I know, but even if he is I bet he can sucker some team into a 4 year deal like Lecavellier did.  I would rather have/pay Joe $7x3 more than have to go longer with Richards.

 

[Kin]

Oh I know, but even if he is I bet he can sucker some team into a 4 year deal like Lecavellier did.  I would rather have/pay Joe $7x3 more than have to go longer with Richards.

I suppose, at that point, the question becomes how cheap Richards would have to be to be a preferable option, considering that you wouldn't have to trade assets for him.

 

[Corn Flake]

Oh I know, but even if he is I bet he can sucker some team into a 4 year deal like Lecavellier did.  I would rather have/pay Joe $7x3 more than have to go longer with Richards.

I suppose, at that point, the question becomes how cheap Richards would have to be to be a preferable option, considering that you wouldn't have to trade assets for him.

Yeah.  Except that based on his performance the last two years, I just don't think he is really that good anymore. So even if he doesn't cost anything in trade, is he even the guy you want?

Even if he might still be, some stupid team like the Flyers is going to drop $20 mil on him and regret it.

In getting Thornton, I think the Leafs can probably sent a contract back their way which makes that scenario that much better.  Say Lupul or Gleason or perhaps Bozak.

 

[Kin]

So even if he doesn't cost anything in trade, is he even the guy you want?

I mean, I don't really want either of them. Unless, as I said, Richards is so cheap that he's essentially no-risk. I don't want the Leafs to sacrifice any real assets for Thornton though and while San Jose might be willing to take a contract back for him as well, I think they're still going to want the bulk of the trade to be younger players, prospects and picks.

 

[Corn Flake]

So even if he doesn't cost anything in trade, is he even the guy you want?

I mean, I don't really want either of them. Unless, as I said, Richards is so cheap that he's essentially no-risk. I don't want the Leafs to sacrifice any real assets for Thornton though and while San Jose might be willing to take a contract back for him as well, I think they're still going to want the bulk of the trade to be younger players, prospects and picks.

Maybe/probably, but they could also want someone to step in now. Maybe Lupul could be that guy. They do need wing help as well as defense. 

I still think the Phaneuf for Thornton idea has merit.

 

[mr grieves]

I still think the Phaneuf for Thornton idea has merit.

There's really no other likely way to do it, with their cap situation, right? I haven't looked at capgeek in a while, but I recall the outlook for this season being so tight that it was hard to see how they could add a top 6 center.

 

[Redleaf]

I still think the Phaneuf for Thornton idea has merit.

There's really no other likely way to do it, with their cap situation, right? I haven't looked at capgeek in a while, but I recall the outlook for this season being so tight that it was hard to see how they could add a top 6 center.

So you mean to tell me that a smart Leaf GM goes out and trades some youth away for Thornton? Cause were just a Thornton away from the whole shebang, huh? * shakes head*

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I still think the Phaneuf for Thornton idea has merit.

There's really no other likely way to do it, with their cap situation, right? I haven't looked at capgeek in a while, but I recall the outlook for this season being so tight that it was hard to see how they could add a top 6 center.

So you mean to tell me that a smart Leaf GM goes out and trades some youth away for Thornton? Cause were just a Thornton away from the whole shebang, huh? * shakes head*

Phaneuf is probably past the "youth" tag.

 

[mr grieves]

I still think the Phaneuf for Thornton idea has merit.

There's really no other likely way to do it, with their cap situation, right? I haven't looked at capgeek in a while, but I recall the outlook for this season being so tight that it was hard to see how they could add a top 6 center.

So you mean to tell me that a smart Leaf GM goes out and trades some youth away for Thornton? Cause were just a Thornton away from the whole shebang, huh? * shakes head*

No, just that cap situation means that GM can't. Personally, I'd like to see someone swap youth for youth -- package Gardiner or Kadri to try to get O'Reilly from Colorado -- or try for a UFA like Stasny, but those aren't even options. Or are they? I haven't looked lately.

But, no, I don't think trading away a developed defenseman like Phaneuf for an older C makes much sense. That C will be well past his prime -- to say nothing of the forwards in their late 20s -- by the time the younger defense corps, presumably anchored by Rielly and Gardiner, is developed enough to compete.

 

[Redleaf]

I still think the Phaneuf for Thornton idea has merit.

There's really no other likely way to do it, with their cap situation, right? I haven't looked at capgeek in a while, but I recall the outlook for this season being so tight that it was hard to see how they could add a top 6 center.

So you mean to tell me that a smart Leaf GM goes out and trades some youth away for Thornton? Cause were just a Thornton away from the whole shebang, huh? * shakes head*

Phaneuf is probably past the "youth" tag.

Phaneuf may be past his youthfulness, but not his usefulness. Nonis would be giving away his best defenseman for a guy with less years ahead than I can could on one hand. This on a team that is years away still from being any kind of contender.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Clearly the Leafs.

@Hope_Smoke 

Friedman "the thing about SJ is, I've heard Joe Thornton does not want to move unless it's to an absolutely 5 star lock contender"