The Brian Burke Thread
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Zee
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Bender said:
Part of Burke's problem the last few seasons has been he seems to lack a direction of where he wants to go. He has to give his year-end assessment like he normally does so it'll be very interesting to see what kind of spin he puts on the upcoming off-season and what moves he's thinking of making. Does he suddenly say we have to wait a few more seasons to develop our own talent? Does he insist we can plug holes in the lineup with trades?
Burke speaks far too much about what he *can* do but then never ends up doing anything. Remember the Tavares draft and how Burke spoke about "trading up" and how deals could be structured so that every team was happy with the player they got? He mentioned the Pronger draft, the Sedin draft, implying that he could somehow move up and get his man, then he does nothing.
Burke's own mouth is his biggest enemy in my opinion, and I'm not even one calling for his head yet, I just see where a case can be made to fire him.
Optimus Reimer
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Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
Not corporate standards, because the whole organization was sold for 1.8 billion or so. I am talking how the sports franchises are handled and how complacent people are towards the franchises. The organization should be built on a tradition of winning and success, not excuses or suckiness and incompetence. The team should have gradually improved each season, but that was not the case, and as fans, we should be pissed. Not making the playoffs in 8 or so seasons is not acceptable and one or two playoff rounds from MLSE owned teams over the past 8 seasons is simply not good enough for the fans in the city and country.
Some interesting discussion of where the team is at with Poulin, etc..
"I talk to my amateur scouts all the time and I say we are research and development. We could be the iPhone eight years ago, but unfortunately today we don't know what the final product is going to be," Poulin said. "When I talk to business people it makes total sense to them because I say I'm research and development, except my product is out there now and it's not a finished product. It is critiqued mildly on a daily basis, but it has actually only been in gestation for a short period of time."
Poulin says the Leafs are now in the third phase of the rebuilding plan that started when Burke took over on Nov. 30, 2008.
They believe they've undone a lot of the wrongs they inherited, including putting Jeff Finger and his albatross of a contract in the AHL for the last two seasons. Darcy Tucker was bought out. Pavel Kubina, Tomas Kaberle, Alexei Ponikarovsky, Matt Stajan, Niklas Hagman, Ian White and Jason Blake and Vesa Toskala were all traded away.
.....
"You'd love to say we're going to start something three and a half years ago, but you have to undo before you can do," Poulin said. "It's not as simple as saying, 'OK guys, clean slate, let's go.' He had to undo contracts, roster spots, a lot of things. That was a much more complicated piece than you would think."
....
"Now we're in a more complex stage, which is exactly what do we need from here?" Poulin said.
That phase includes taking stock of prospects such as 6-foot-6 center Joe Colborne, Nazem Kadri, Jessie Blacker, Nicholas Deschamps, Jerry D'Amigo, Korbinian Holzer and the newly-arrived Carter Ashton.
Save for Holzer, who is 24 years old, they're all between the ages of 20 and 22.
"You're starting to look at birth years and the idea is to grow a like age group," Poulin said. "Yes, there is going to be a sprinkling of older and a sprinkling of younger, but the core group has to be around the same age because they have to be around somewhat the same contract status."
In reality, though, trading some of these prospects this summer or at next year's deadline may be the only way they help the Leafs become a contender by 2013. That could be Burke's next play as he seeks out a powerful center or gets himself involved in the Rick Nash sweepstakes.
"I talk to my amateur scouts all the time and I say we are research and development. We could be the iPhone eight years ago, but unfortunately today we don't know what the final product is going to be," Poulin said. "When I talk to business people it makes total sense to them because I say I'm research and development, except my product is out there now and it's not a finished product. It is critiqued mildly on a daily basis, but it has actually only been in gestation for a short period of time."
Poulin says the Leafs are now in the third phase of the rebuilding plan that started when Burke took over on Nov. 30, 2008.
They believe they've undone a lot of the wrongs they inherited, including putting Jeff Finger and his albatross of a contract in the AHL for the last two seasons. Darcy Tucker was bought out. Pavel Kubina, Tomas Kaberle, Alexei Ponikarovsky, Matt Stajan, Niklas Hagman, Ian White and Jason Blake and Vesa Toskala were all traded away.
.....
"You'd love to say we're going to start something three and a half years ago, but you have to undo before you can do," Poulin said. "It's not as simple as saying, 'OK guys, clean slate, let's go.' He had to undo contracts, roster spots, a lot of things. That was a much more complicated piece than you would think."
....
"Now we're in a more complex stage, which is exactly what do we need from here?" Poulin said.
That phase includes taking stock of prospects such as 6-foot-6 center Joe Colborne, Nazem Kadri, Jessie Blacker, Nicholas Deschamps, Jerry D'Amigo, Korbinian Holzer and the newly-arrived Carter Ashton.
Save for Holzer, who is 24 years old, they're all between the ages of 20 and 22.
"You're starting to look at birth years and the idea is to grow a like age group," Poulin said. "Yes, there is going to be a sprinkling of older and a sprinkling of younger, but the core group has to be around the same age because they have to be around somewhat the same contract status."
In reality, though, trading some of these prospects this summer or at next year's deadline may be the only way they help the Leafs become a contender by 2013. That could be Burke's next play as he seeks out a powerful center or gets himself involved in the Rick Nash sweepstakes.
armche123 said:
Sure, and I can live on the moon next season, with the right additions of a gravity induced dome, condo, and a pool overlooking earth. There are few good pieces in place. Kessel, our best player, is soft as butter and sensitive as a school girl.
armche123 said:
You know Burke has added a lot of the garbage himself right? Komisarek, Connolly, Lombardi, and Phaneuf. These players all make the team better than worse when considering talent relative to cost. They Leafs don?t need time to gel, they need better hockey players.
armche123 said:
Nash wasn?t going to put this team over the top compared to what would have had to been given up. His contract is too large for the production value.
armche123 said:
I fail to see how Burke has been business savvy, I think he has done a relatively poor job with handing out contracts and a worse job in player evaluation. This team has lost 14 of 16 games in year 4 of the rebuild. I am not concerned with the lack of moves at the trade deadline; players were over-priced even more than usual. What I am concerned about is a GM who preached defense and truculence and built a team exactly the opposite of that, a small, soft team who loses often.
armche123 said:
I would have to say it is mostly Burke?s fault, but that?s just me.
also @ Ic9... in all fairness.. Burke did say that times have changed, and the look of his team might have to as well... he did say that publicly.. (forgot where i heard it) but it was at the time when Orr got sent down. Also, if we had players that were willing to bang, and play that role, maybe we would have a proper 3rd line, one that resembles his style...
LuncheonMeat
New member
Tigger said:
He's cleared out a whole whack of crappy contracts, added a lot of prospects to a cupboard that was totally bare, and put together arguably one of the best management teams in hockey. I would say that's progress.
I think Burke knows what he wants/needs in terms of players, but you need a partner to trade with and players who actually want to play here. I see guys like Tim Connoly, although he hasn't worked out, as the next best option. You can't do nothing, and you can't get the guy you need/want, so you go with the next best option... as opposed to doing nothing and being taken to task for that. It's a bit of a no win situation.
ZBBM
Active member
Tigger said:
He a veteran who, it is quite apparent, either won't or (more likely) can't learn the D side.
I would feel better if he wasn't wearing the C, which would at least make him possibly tradeable.
In fairness, he's looked a bit better these past few games, so perhaps there's some hope for him in a limited capacity in a well-constructed defensive system.
ontariojames
New member
ARGUABLY not playing to his contract????? Are you seriously trying to say that there are a significant number of Leaf fans who think he is playing like a 6.5 million dollar Dman? What possible argument can their be for Phaneuf playing like a 6.5 mil Dman? He is the 7th highest paid Dmen in the league, is he anywhere near one of the top 7 Dmen in the league? He is a 45-50 point Dman who is average in his own end, he's not worth anywhere near 6.5.Bullfrog said:
As far as it not being Burke's fault, Phaneuf was playing like this if not worse when Burke traded for him and his contract.
Zee said:
Anyone who puts themselves out there voicing his views,etc, as much as Burke does, is going to leave himself open to misunderstandings, attacks, etc. I don't have a big problem with his mouth but it's always going to cause him some trouble.
On the bolded part of your post, I think Burke had a plan when he came in - as he said back then: "retooling". But to retool quickly required decent players to be available on the UFA market and that simply hasn't been there in great quantity. The UFA market dried up. I think that as GMs caught onto the new CBA, they got a bunch of the good, more reliable players signed up. There haven't been a ton of "the one that got away" on the UFA market since Burke's arrival. Secondly, although players improved fitness is allowing them to play longer, I think the increased speed and the increased premium on skating has made it a younger man's game. The older UFAs have lost out some.
Burke also stayed true to his plan to improve the prospects. I think he's done a fairly decent job there. There were no obvious elite prospects passed over. He didn't trade them away. The only thing he did was get a more likely to be elite young player in Kessel to accelerate his retooling at the expense of what turned out to be very good picks (ie Seguin). It wasn't a total loss as MacArthur wasn't a terrible UFA signing for example.
I think the crop of young UFA goalies and college UFAs isn't a terrible story either. The jury is still out but we have Bozak. And we'll probably get something out of the crop of young goalies with a maybe for someone like Mueller.
Burke made some poor signings like Komisarek but most GMs make mistakes. His ability to fix a number of his mistakes has also been kind of impressive (ie Versteeg, Lebda & Beauchemin)
Some of Burkes trades have been quite remarkable - dumping Blake & Toskala, Beauchemin trade & even with the over payment of Phaneuf, it allowed the club to turn over and give the young guys a chance.
When the UFA market didn't deliver as planned, he was able to react and flip for some young assets - particularly last season.
We now have a young team that is showing it's age.
I didn't care for Burke's retooling plan/direction but I can't say he lacked one. He just had to change it when the UFA market didn't deliver.
MLSE make money hand over fist. They have made the fan experience pretty darn good down at the ACC with Maple Leaf Square and Real Sports Bar and Grill. As awful as they are at putting together good sports team, these are very astute business people. At some point, an exec is going to wonder aloud "Imagine how many more revenue streams we could have if we, um, made the playoffs and had a good team?"
With every missed playoff comes oodles of lost revenue. You know these guys are chomping at the bit to release insanely priced playoff tickets that will be criticised by the media, but sold out in less than 30 minutes.
Burke is safe right now but far from untouchable. He now has his own coaching hire so he is completely out of excuses.
With every missed playoff comes oodles of lost revenue. You know these guys are chomping at the bit to release insanely priced playoff tickets that will be criticised by the media, but sold out in less than 30 minutes.
Burke is safe right now but far from untouchable. He now has his own coaching hire so he is completely out of excuses.
hockeyfan1
New member
Tigger said:
The Columbus Blue Jackets are the odds-on favorite to win the No. 1 overall pick this summer -- otherwise known as the Nail Yakupov sweepstakes, since the Sarnia forward is likely going to be the top pick in the draft.
And they may trade the pick.
That's what La Presse's Marc Antoine Godin heard from three different NHL execs, and they told him the Jackets are expected to deal that pick. Now, if the Jackets finish last in the standings -- which it looks like they will -- the worst they can do is select No. 2, which will still be a very valuable pick. Mikhail Grigorenko -- the big Russian forward -- will likely be the pick there, and teams will surely be vying to land him, as well
However, Jackets GM Scott Howson may be axed by that point so it may not be his decision to make -- and the pick might no longer be for sale. But assuming it is, the Jackets may be able to entirely revamp their roster by trading that pick and Rick Nash. For the top pick -- which, value-wise almost always translates into an elite forward -- they'll likely want to get at least a top-line NHL forward, a prospect and perhaps a mid-first round pick.
Source:. ESPN
What would it take for the Leafs to pry lose a Nash, a Yakupov, and a (Jack) Johnson from Columbus? Just hypothesizing here.
GhostofPotvin29
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Probably any deal for Nash, Yakupov and Johnson would have to start with a wing and a prayer.
hockeyfan1
New member
Potvin29 said:
Which is what we need now!
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