The Official TFC/Soccer thread
- Thread starter hockeyfan1
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S
Stebro
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Yes sir, but I just got home. So I only saw the last few mins of the first half.Madferret said:
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
Madferret said:
Or Holland.
The only country where a national cultural holiday figure can be a slave child, and they don't see anything racist about it.
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brothert
Guest
It's interesting in that one black man accused another black man of using a racial slur against him, particularly the point of being black. Not really sure that the FA is actually on any moral high ground here. That said I don't know how generalizing Italians and Dutch in the previous comments as being racists really helps enlighten the situation.
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
JohnK's Revenge said:
Schwartz Pete is a very racist character which is widely beloved in Holland.
Not sure it's a generalization to say that it's racist for it to be openly accepted.
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brothert
Guest
I had a gollywog when I was 5 yrs old. I would buy my own kid one except for the fear of him being deemed a racist. Don't know much about Black Peter but it doesn't appear that saint nick went to africa and slapped him in irons. More of a Batman & Robin figure in dutch christmas folklore but I can see it a Talisman that can be twisted to either side of the debate "Traditionalists" vs "Anti-Racists". I wonder what Ritz will call their products a hundred years from now as it's clearly racially motivated (TFPIC).Chev-boyar-sky said:
leafs_fan89
New member
why r the playing at the dome and not at bmo field just wondering.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
Larger attendance If I had to guess, Galaxy have a big following.
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
JohnK's Revenge said:
Well the true origins from the Middle Ages were that Schwartz Piet was evil.
In colonial Holland he became a mischievous black child which Sinterklaas brought back from a colony. He's often used in children's games where he answers all questions wrong appearing ignorant so other children can get the questions right. Historically he's spoken Dutch with a bad accent and been laughed at and ridiculed for it.
It is very common for white Dutch people to don "black face" in order to be Schwartz Piet. You may not think it's racist but at the very least it's massively insensitive, not unlike the Gollywog doll you mentioned. For it to be so openly accepted is also very disconcerting, IMO. Just because you grew up with something and didn't think it was racist, doesn't mean others had the same opinion. Would you be ok with a "Jewish doll" that was portrayed with a big nose?
Here's a link to an article discussing the issue with a picture that speaks for itself:
http://www.thegrio.com/news/black-peter-racist-dutch-xmas-tradition-or-not.php
B
brothert
Guest
The point I am making is that if I had a doll with a big nose, and someone comes along and says that it's a Jewish doll doesn't mean that it is a Jewish doll or that I am racist. Even the article you cited stated that Black Pete was not considered to be a black man but a soot covered boy who can't wash it out. And anyone who had an issue with my gollywog, well i guess that's their cross to bear.Chev-boyar-sky said:
Anyway Black Pete is way off topic and I can't debate it beyond the superficial level. I think a more interesting point to discuss is whether John Terry will get anything close to what FA gave Suarez. You know black guy gets 8 game suspension and white guy gets off on lack proof. :
Madferret
New member
JohnK's Revenge said:The point I am making is that if I had a doll with a big nose, and someone comes along and says that it's a Jewish doll doesn't mean that it is a Jewish doll or that I am racist. Even the article you cited stated that Black Pete was not considered to be a black man but a soot covered boy who can't wash it out. And anyone who had an issue with my gollywog, well i guess that's their cross to bear.Chev-boyar-sky said:
Anyway Black Pete is way off topic and I can't debate it beyond the superficial level. I think a more interesting point to discuss is whether John Terry will get anything close to what FA gave Suarez. You know black guy gets 8 game suspension and white guy gets off on lack proof. :
Chev likes to bring that story up anytime I take a shot at Italian footballers / Serie A - I think he thinks I'm dutch or something.
B
brothert
Guest
This topic, of how icons are changeing based on public opinion is fascinating to me. And it should probably be moved to another thread. Your point is well taken. What should we do. When those names were created for those teams I believe they were created with the utmost respect intended. Almost all sporting teams are considered a metaphor for warring armies. The native armies were always feared for their fighting spirit (especially since they fighting guns with bows and arrows) Their bravery was unquestion. Another icon i've thought about was the swastika. It conjures up such derision when we see it today but I was shocked to find it in a book of art from ancient times as a symbol of strength and it was usually well regarded. Christmas is the kicker though.... after fighting off people to satisfy my guilt of not consuming "enough" ... I go home to watch some crap about Christ's birth.... when I really should be going off to some burial mound or cemetary to pay respects to the dead on the solstice.Madferret said:
