Toronto Maple Leafs 100 - Live Stream

[bustaheims]

Ok, I'll bite. In a brief web search, I couldn't really find the criteria behind the list - but what is it about Domi that doesn't warrant consideration? He was a very prominent core player and fan favourite in an era of the enforcer.

I suppose that depends on how you see the list. If you're looking at it as the 100 most popular Leafs or the 100 most prominent Leafs, then, yeah, maybe he deserves to be there. However, you're looking at at the list as the 100 best players to spend a decent amount of time in a Leafs' uniform, the 100 top performing Leafs, top 100 contributors to the Leafs success, etc., then it's really hard to justify him being on the list ahead of guys with multiple 30+ goal seasons, guys who played key roles on teams that had deep playoff runs or even won a Cup, etc. He was a popular Leaf whose top skill was not an actual hockey skill.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I know Keon wasn't from my era but I'm having a slightly hard time seeing a guy with 858 points in 1062 games as the best Leaf of all time.  That and when you take era adjusted scoring into account his numbers don't go up.

It probably should have been Sundin or Sittler but I'm guessing that, along with the plethora of old-timey names on the list, a connection to Stanley Cups was a big factor.

Disagree, and the reasons why are more than just the Stanley Cups:
- Conn Smythe
- Calder Trophy
- Two Lady Byng's
- Known as the best two way player in the game at the time.  Not everything that makes a player shows up on the scoresheet.  A number of players outscore Kopitar and Toews each year... but they are still the 2nd and 3rd best centers in the NHL because of their 200 ft games.  Not saying Sundin was a slouch, but Keon was one of the best ever at the two-way game.

 

[Kin]

The other thing, just to prove I'm not one of these left wing journalist types, is that when it comes to thing Domi actually did I don't think he was that great at it. Domi wasn't Probert or someone like Boogard where it was, you know, "Oh man, our tough guy has to fight Domi!". I definitely didn't feel that way when Domi wasn't on the team. I don't remember thinking, you know, "If Clark or Baumgartner has to fight Domi he'll get destroyed!" but rather "If Clark or Baumgartner fight Domi, I hope they don't break their hand on his head".

The big Domi-Probert tilts, if I recall correctly, were when Domi was with the Jets and Rangers and every time it seemed like Domi's primary attribute as a fighter was an ability to take punishment and keep throwing. That made him an effective fighter, I guess, but I don't buy that he ever really intimidated anyone.

 

[Kin]

Disagree, and the reasons why are more than just the Stanley Cups:
- Conn Smythe
- Calder Trophy
- Two Lady Byng's
- Known as the best two way player in the game at the time.  Not everything that makes a player shows up on the scoresheet.  A number of players outscore Kopitar and Toews each year... but they are still the 2nd and 3rd best centers in the NHL because of their 200 ft games.  Not saying Sundin was a slouch, but Keon was one of the best ever at the two-way game.

I will grant you that Sundin won zero Lady Byngs.

 

[Arn]

Mogilny below Tucker stands out as another debatable one for me

 

[lamajama]

I know Keon wasn't from my era but I'm having a slightly hard time seeing a guy with 858 points in 1062 games as the best Leaf of all time.  That and when you take era adjusted scoring into account his numbers don't go up.

It probably should have been Sundin or Sittler but I'm guessing that, along with the plethora of old-timey names on the list, a connection to Stanley Cups was a big factor.

Disagree, and the reasons why are more than just the Stanley Cups:
- Conn Smythe
- Calder Trophy
- Two Lady Byng's
- Known as the best two way player in the game at the time.  Not everything that makes a player shows up on the scoresheet.  A number of players outscore Kopitar and Toews each year... but they are still the 2nd and 3rd best centers in the NHL because of their 200 ft games.  Not saying Sundin was a slouch, but Keon was one of the best ever at the two-way game.

Keon did not play in an era with inflated scoring. That was well after he retired or was gone from the Leafs for sure.

 

[L K]

I know Keon wasn't from my era but I'm having a slightly hard time seeing a guy with 858 points in 1062 games as the best Leaf of all time.  That and when you take era adjusted scoring into account his numbers don't go up.

It probably should have been Sundin or Sittler but I'm guessing that, along with the plethora of old-timey names on the list, a connection to Stanley Cups was a big factor.

Disagree, and the reasons why are more than just the Stanley Cups:
- Conn Smythe
- Calder Trophy
- Two Lady Byng's
- Known as the best two way player in the game at the time.  Not everything that makes a player shows up on the scoresheet.  A number of players outscore Kopitar and Toews each year... but they are still the 2nd and 3rd best centers in the NHL because of their 200 ft games.  Not saying Sundin was a slouch, but Keon was one of the best ever at the two-way game.

Keon did not play in an era with inflated scoring. That was well after he retired or was gone from the Leafs for sure.

ERA Adjusted scoring:

Sundin - 1410 points (18th all time)
Keon - 975 points (92nd all time)

 

[Palmateer29]

I know Keon wasn't from my era but I'm having a slightly hard time seeing a guy with 858 points in 1062 games as the best Leaf of all time.  That and when you take era adjusted scoring into account his numbers don't go up.

It probably should have been Sundin or Sittler but I'm guessing that, along with the plethora of old-timey names on the list, a connection to Stanley Cups was a big factor.

Disagree, and the reasons why are more than just the Stanley Cups:
- Conn Smythe
- Calder Trophy
- Two Lady Byng's
- Known as the best two way player in the game at the time.  Not everything that makes a player shows up on the scoresheet.  A number of players outscore Kopitar and Toews each year... but they are still the 2nd and 3rd best centers in the NHL because of their 200 ft games.  Not saying Sundin was a slouch, but Keon was one of the best ever at the two-way game.

Keon did not play in an era with inflated scoring. That was well after he retired or was gone from the Leafs for sure.

ERA Adjusted scoring:

Sundin - 1410 points (18th all time)
Keon - 975 points (92nd all time)

As someone who saw both play I would take Keon in him prime every single time.

 

[Kin]

ERA Adjusted scoring:

Sundin - 1410 points (18th all time)
Keon - 975 points (92nd all time)

I get where you're coming from but in presenting it like that you're including Sundin's Nordiques totals while leaving out Keon's WHA stuff. Considering the particulars of why Keon was in the WHA it would be crummy to hold it against him.

I don't know how you'd adjust WHA numbers but Keon's at a combined 1287 points. That should probably be the context we see it in.

 

[ZBBM]

Sundin was the best because I liked him the best.

 

[ZBBM]

And unless I missed it no Kaberle. Frankly I'd have him there over McCabe.

 

[Kin]

And unless I missed it no Kaberle. Frankly I'd have him there over McCabe.

You missed it. He's #37.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I know Keon wasn't from my era but I'm having a slightly hard time seeing a guy with 858 points in 1062 games as the best Leaf of all time.  That and when you take era adjusted scoring into account his numbers don't go up.

It probably should have been Sundin or Sittler but I'm guessing that, along with the plethora of old-timey names on the list, a connection to Stanley Cups was a big factor.

Disagree, and the reasons why are more than just the Stanley Cups:
- Conn Smythe
- Calder Trophy
- Two Lady Byng's
- Known as the best two way player in the game at the time.  Not everything that makes a player shows up on the scoresheet.  A number of players outscore Kopitar and Toews each year... but they are still the 2nd and 3rd best centers in the NHL because of their 200 ft games.  Not saying Sundin was a slouch, but Keon was one of the best ever at the two-way game.

Keon did not play in an era with inflated scoring. That was well after he retired or was gone from the Leafs for sure.

ERA Adjusted scoring:

Sundin - 1410 points (18th all time)
Keon - 975 points (92nd all time)

As someone who saw both play I would take Keon in him prime every single time.

Very good arguments for sure...My top 3 would have been Salming, Keon, Sundin.... Salming was unbelievable and IMO the best Leaf ever.

 

[ZBBM]

And unless I missed it no Kaberle. Frankly I'd have him there over McCabe.

You missed it. He's #37.

Thx man. I had a hard time reading the listpic on Twitter.

 

[bustaheims]

Mogilny below Tucker stands out as another debatable one for me

I imagine length of time in a Leafs' uniform played a large part there.

 

[jdh1]

I know Keon wasn't from my era but I'm having a slightly hard time seeing a guy with 858 points in 1062 games as the best Leaf of all time.  That and when you take era adjusted scoring into account his numbers don't go up.

He was the on ice leader and the opposition had their hands full with him pushing the play.Without him they may have only won 1 or 2 cups in the sixties,rather than the 4.Seen many of his games on tv back then.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'd have Dmitri Yushkevich on the list somewhere. Even if in the lower 10.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'd have Dmitri Yushkevich on the list somewhere. Even if in the lower 10.

Yeah that's actually pretty glaring omission (that I didn't originally notice).

 

[Frank E]

No Randy Wood? 

I'm out.

 

[Arn]

Mogilny below Tucker stands out as another debatable one for me

I imagine length of time in a Leafs' uniform played a large part there.

Yeah that's probably fair. Mogilny was in the team just when I started following the Leafs and he was a standout for someone sort of learning the game. Tucker I liked but I thought his last year or two were disappointing so that maybe sours me on him a little