Training Camp - Sept 11

[bustaheims]

Rielly needs to go back no matter what he does in camp.  I'm not in favor of even keeping him around for any real games ... it just muddies the waters.  Only the rarest of the rare d-men can or should make the jump right to the NHL.

I'm kind of with you. Either Rielly makes the roster full-time or he goes back to junior. No 9 game try out stuff. There have been plenty of young defencemen make that jump at Rielly's age in recent years, and, if he's good enough, then he's good enough. No in between stuff.

 

[Deebo]

I don't see the harm in the 9 games.

 

[Kin]

Rielly needs to go back no matter what he does in camp.  I'm not in favor of even keeping him around for any real games ... it just muddies the waters.  Only the rarest of the rare d-men can or should make the jump right to the NHL.

I've shown the list before but it's really not that rare for a defenseman picked in the top 5 to skip the AHL almost entirely.

 

[Deebo]

Rielly needs to go back no matter what he does in camp.  I'm not in favor of even keeping him around for any real games ... it just muddies the waters.  Only the rarest of the rare d-men can or should make the jump right to the NHL.

Are you saying he should spend the whole year in the WHL, then next year in the AHL before he makes the NHL full time?

 

[bustaheims]

I don't see the harm in the 9 games.

I see it being problematic in terms of the ice time he'll get. If Franson's signed, there really isn't a spot for him, and, even if Franson's not signed, he really only gets 3rd pairing time, which is fine if you're easing him into full-time duty over the course of the season, but, pretty pointless on a 9 game tryout. I just don't see the point or the benefit of keeping him around for those just 9 games.

 

[pmrules]

Rielly needs to go back no matter what he does in camp.  I'm not in favor of even keeping him around for any real games ... it just muddies the waters.  Only the rarest of the rare d-men can or should make the jump right to the NHL.

Are you saying he should spend the whole year in the WHL, then next year in the AHL before he makes the NHL full time?

I wouldn't mind that.  I hate the fact that he can't play in the A this year.  We all loved Luke Schenn in his first few seasons here, and he fell off the radar quite quickly after that.  I always wonder "what if" with Schenn (but the JVR scores, and I feel sooo much better )

 

[Frank E]

I don't see the harm in the 9 games.

I see it being problematic in terms of the ice time he'll get. If Franson's signed, there really isn't a spot for him, and, even if Franson's not signed, he really only gets 3rd pairing time, which is fine if you're easing him into full-time duty over the course of the season, but, pretty pointless on a 9 game tryout. I just don't see the point or the benefit of keeping him around for those just 9 games.

I'm with Deebo, I don't see any harm.

He can get some NHL game experience, figure out what he needs to work on, even if he only gets 13-15 minutes a game.

 

[Rick C.]

Only the rarest of the rare d-men can or should make the jump right to the NHL.

I was just thinking that the other night.  Many d-men don't mature as strong players until they're 25+.

 

[Bender]

Only the rarest of the rare d-men can or should make the jump right to the NHL.

I was just thinking that the other night.  Many d-men don't mature as strong players until they're 25+.

Rielly may be pretty damn rare though!

I haven't really seen much since the WJC. Has he stood out so far?

 

[bustaheims]

I'm with Deebo, I don't see any harm.

He can get some NHL game experience, figure out what he needs to work on, even if he only gets 13-15 minutes a game.

I don't think it'll necessarily do any harm, I just don't think it really has much of a benefit, either. I mean, how much is he really going to learn from playing 3rd pairing minutes for a couple weeks and then going back to junior? I just don't see it being worthwhile. If he's not going to make the team permanently, send him back to junior. Players at Rielly's talent level generally don't get the 9 game try out - they either crack the roster full-time or they go back to junior. I mean, looking at the high-end young defencemen in the league, only Pietrangelo and Jack Johnson did it. For guys like Rielly, it's just not necessary. Either they're ready or they're not. If they're ready, get them in there full-time. If they're not, let them have the full year in junior to work on things.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm with Deebo, I don't see any harm.

He can get some NHL game experience, figure out what he needs to work on, even if he only gets 13-15 minutes a game.

I don't think it'll necessarily do any harm, I just don't think it really has much of a benefit, either. I mean, how much is he really going to learn from playing 3rd pairing minutes for a couple weeks and then going back to junior? I just don't see it being worthwhile. If he's not going to make the team permanently, send him back to junior. Players at Rielly's talent level generally don't get the 9 game try out - they either crack the roster full-time or they go back to junior. I mean, looking at the high-end young defencemen in the league, only Pietrangelo and Jack Johnson did it. For guys like Rielly, it's just not necessary. Either they're ready or they're not. If they're ready, get them in there full-time. If they're not, let them have the full year in junior to work on things.

Not to mention he's missed a good chunk of development time with that knee injury.  I don't see the point either.

 

[Redleaf]

Cuts today at camp.....

http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=682891&navid=DL%7CTOR%7Chome

 

[ZBBM]

Rielly needs to go back no matter what he does in camp.  I'm not in favor of even keeping him around for any real games ... it just muddies the waters.  Only the rarest of the rare d-men can or should make the jump right to the NHL.

Are you saying he should spend the whole year in the WHL, then next year in the AHL before he makes the NHL full time?

Well, I've said before that I wish there were some kind of exceptional status that would allow kids like him to cut out of the OHL and play in the AHL.  Say, Top 10 picks.  I realize that the OHL teams would scream bloody murder to keep their stars in the league, even if it's better for the individual to graduate to the pros.  But it is what it is.  I would keep him in junior this year, start him in the AHL next year, and then bring him up after he's had a real taste of the pro grind.  It seems to have worked for the Wings....

 

[ZBBM]

Rielly needs to go back no matter what he does in camp.  I'm not in favor of even keeping him around for any real games ... it just muddies the waters.  Only the rarest of the rare d-men can or should make the jump right to the NHL.

I've shown the list before but it's really not that rare for a defenseman picked in the top 5 to skip the AHL almost entirely.

Perhaps, but you could argue that even someone like Doughty plateaued a bit after his rookie season and could have benefited from not being brought up so quickly.  Like Rick said, d-men are a different animal.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't see the harm in the 9 games.

I see it being problematic in terms of the ice time he'll get. If Franson's signed, there really isn't a spot for him, and, even if Franson's not signed, he really only gets 3rd pairing time, which is fine if you're easing him into full-time duty over the course of the season, but, pretty pointless on a 9 game tryout. I just don't see the point or the benefit of keeping him around for those just 9 games.

This.

Plus, if he tears it up in Game 1-9 then the pressure to keep him up will be unbelievable.  Not a good atmosphere to make a strategic decision about one of your best assets.

 

[Jalili]

Rielly needs to go back no matter what he does in camp.  I'm not in favor of even keeping him around for any real games ... it just muddies the waters.  Only the rarest of the rare d-men can or should make the jump right to the NHL.

I've shown the list before but it's really not that rare for a defenseman picked in the top 5 to skip the AHL almost entirely.

Perhaps, but you could argue that even someone like Doughty plateaued a bit after his rookie season and could have benefited from not being brought up so quickly.  Like Rick said, d-men are a different animal.

Doughty wouldn't be a good example because he's been pretty damn good since he entered the league. He never missed a beat going from his draft year to the NHL.

Rielly realistically though should be playing another year in junior.

 

[Kin]

Perhaps, but you could argue that even someone like Doughty plateaued a bit after his rookie season and could have benefited from not being brought up so quickly.

Sure, but I don't know if that argument would have any more substance than someone who wanted to argue that more time in the minors would have stunted Doughty's development. That the proper way to develop a hockey player is inherently unknowable seems, to me, to be a given. My point is just that if the assertion is that lots of junior/AHL time is the best thing for top defensive prospects it isn't a common wisdom that NHL GM's seem to live by.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Alex Pietrangelo was another top-5 draft pick who didn't make the NHL full-time until he was 20-years old. Some were critical of St. Louis' decision to bring him along slowly at the time but it looks like that worked out pretty well for them. In his second season after being drafted St. Louis actually kept him in the NHL until December (while only playing him for 9 games) before letting him play in the WJC and returning him to the OHL after that. It's not the most common route to take but I wouldn't mind taking it into consideration. It's kind of the best of both worlds.

Really, as long as we don't kick in the first year of Rielly's contract I think I'll be happy. With so much money being invested into our core players we really need to take advantage of the ELC's of our top prospects, and right now that's pretty much just Rielly.

 

[Redleaf]

I'm starting to lean towards sending him back. While he's looked pretty solid, I don't think he's blown anybody away. And he still needs to develop more defensive awareness and needs to be playing big minutes, which he won't get in Toronto.

The only remaining question for me is whether or not he should get an extended 9 game look to start the season before he heads back to Moose Jaw.

 

[pmrules]

Can Morgan play the last 9 games of the season with us after spending the majority of the season in the W.  Could he then play for us in the playoffs if we were to be so lucky.