Unofficial 2013-2014 Armchair GM Thread

[Kin]

Giving Gardiner a roster spot at the age of 21 after 3 years of University hockey playing with bigger older players than Junior hockey is hardly rushing him.

You sort of missed the point there. I wasn't saying that the Leafs rushed Gardiner, I'm saying he's not an example of a player they didn't rush because they never had the option of rushing him or not. He arrived more or less NHL ready. Likewise my point about Kadri is that they were more than willing to give him a chance but he wasn't ready. It wasn't a conservative decision, just a rational one.

Nobody is saying Rielly wont get a taste of the NHL in the next two seasons, I just don't see him being a regular until year three.  Unless we are forced into that scenario due to a deal involving Franson or Phaneuf.  If Franson is signed rather than dealt it just buys time for the proper development of Rielly. 

But my whole point is that the idea that "proper" development of a highly touted defensive prospect is slow or involves a long apprenticeship just doesn't hold up to even the most basic of scrutiny. Again, look at that list of defensemen from the 2008 draft. If you're saying that you don't see Rielly being a regular for three seasons you're not sticking to some established "correct" development pattern you're moving him along slower than virtually every top young defenseman has been brought along in recent years.

 

[leafplasma]

But my whole point is that the idea that "proper" development of a highly touted defensive prospect is slow or involves a long apprenticeship just doesn't hold up to even the most basic of scrutiny. Again, look at that list of defensemen from the 2008 draft. If you're saying that you don't see Rielly being a regular for three seasons you're not sticking to some established "correct" development pattern you're moving him along slower than virtually every top young defenseman has been brought along in recent years.

With the puck moving dman currently with the team in Gardiner, Phaneuf and Liles and the fact that we need to make a hard decision on Franson it really handcuffs us though to give him a spot even if he does impress.  There is no point in signing Franson if the Leafs plan on fast tracking Rielly into the lineup like the other Dman you speak of.  Maybe it will come down to who the Leafs want to keep between Franson and Phaneuf because we have another big decision with Phaneuf on the horizon coming up next.  That brings up a new debate.  Now that Phaneuf has reeled back the huge hit in an attempt to stay in position and the fact that Franson has become a bit more physical under RC, maybe Franson can replace Phaneuf at years end and at a reduced rate from what Dion will ask for.  So you save cap dollars and you have a dman 3 years younger just entering his prime years, rather than Phaneuf who will turn 29 when he signs his next contract and possibly be on the decline.  I can't see us retaining both longterm and I put my money on Franson.  It may be time to cut ties with Phaneuf rather than extend him. Some big decisions for Nonis for sure.

 

[Deebo]

Damien Cox is suggesting that the Leafs are close to signing Paul Ranger to a one year NHL contract.

While many disagree with Cox's opinions, I've found him to be quite reliable when reporting things like this. We'll wait and see I guess.

 

[maplesyrup]

I like it. Though that likely means Liles or Franson is a gonner.

 

[Redleaf]

I like it. Though that likely means Liles or Franson is a gonner.

Great news, if true. That choice wouldn't even be close to me. I guess there needs to be a taker for Liles though.

 

[maplesyrup]

I like it. Though that likely means Liles or Franson is a gonner.

Great news, if true. That choice wouldn't even be close to me. I guess there needs to be a taker for Liles though.

We've used both our compliance buy-outs but is a regular buy-out an option? Or, has that window closed too?

 

[louisstamos]

I like it. Though that likely means Liles or Franson is a gonner.

Great news, if true. That choice wouldn't even be close to me. I guess there needs to be a taker for Liles though.

We've used both our compliance buy-outs but is a regular buy-out an option? Or, has that window closed too?

Actually, if I'm not mistaken - you can use a regular buyout for 24 (or 48 hours) after an arbitration ruling.  Thus, if Fraser goes all the way to arbitration, and the Leafs are desperate for cap space, they could theoretically buy out Liles at that time.

I have to think that Liles has to retain some value, even if it's for a 6th or 7th rounder, right?

(...right?)

 

[Deebo]

I like it. Though that likely means Liles or Franson is a gonner.

Great news, if true. That choice wouldn't even be close to me. I guess there needs to be a taker for Liles though.

Maybe someone can answer this question for me. Would the Leafs be able to trade away Liles and retain some of his salary without retaining his cap hit?

No, cap hit on retained salary transactions stays with the team.

 

[Redleaf]

I like it. Though that likely means Liles or Franson is a gonner.

Great news, if true. That choice wouldn't even be close to me. I guess there needs to be a taker for Liles though.

Maybe someone can answer this question for me. Would the Leafs be able to trade away Liles and retain some of his salary without retaining his cap hit?

No, cap hit on retained salary transactions stays with the team.

Thought so, but thanks.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If I'm Nonis I go into Fraser's hearing asking for $3.5mil.

 

[bustaheims]

If I'm Nonis I go into Fraser's hearing asking for $3.5mil.

Why aim so low? I go in asking for $5M so the arbitrator settles above $3.5M.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If I'm Nonis I go into Fraser's hearing asking for $3.5mil.

Why aim so low? I go in asking for $5M so the arbitrator settles above $3.5M.

Good point. Although Nonis would probably accept it anyway.

 

[Britishbulldog]

I don't understand it....Shea Weber can now be traded (OK, I didn't literally circle today on my calendar), Nonis has a 5 year extension, Nonis is reportedly not liking Phaneuf and Phaneuf as a LH dman can play opposite RH Seth Jones.  A simple 2014 1st pick and Phaneuf for Weber trade should have been completed by now.

My 'Liles to Colorado for a 2014 2nd pick' should already have been completed as well.

What the heck??!!?

 

[Kin]

I don't understand it....Shea Weber can now be traded (OK, I didn't literally circle today on my calendar), Nonis has a 5 year extension, Nonis is reportedly not liking Phaneuf and Phaneuf as a LH dman can play opposite RH Seth Jones.  A simple 2014 1st pick and Phaneuf for Weber trade should have been completed by now.

My 'Liles to Colorado for a 2014 2nd pick' should already have been completed as well.

What the heck??!!?

That pesky "Other teams have to agree to trades" thing really gets in his way.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't understand it....Shea Weber can now be traded (OK, I didn't literally circle today on my calendar), Nonis has a 5 year extension, Nonis is reportedly not liking Phaneuf and Phaneuf as a LH dman can play opposite RH Seth Jones.  A simple 2014 1st pick and Phaneuf for Weber trade should have been completed by now.

My 'Liles to Colorado for a 2014 2nd pick' should already have been completed as well.

What the heck??!!?

That pesky "Other teams have to agree to trades" thing really gets in his way.

Yeah. If it wasn't for that, we'd be sittin' pretty!

 

[Britishbulldog]

I don't understand it....Shea Weber can now be traded (OK, I didn't literally circle today on my calendar), Nonis has a 5 year extension, Nonis is reportedly not liking Phaneuf and Phaneuf as a LH dman can play opposite RH Seth Jones.  A simple 2014 1st pick and Phaneuf for Weber trade should have been completed by now.

My 'Liles to Colorado for a 2014 2nd pick' should already have been completed as well.

What the heck??!!?

That pesky "Other teams have to agree to trades" thing really gets in his way.

;D

I'd say.

 

[princedpw]

Here's my latest attempt at squeezing under the cap.  It involves a prayer that some team will take Liles if we retain 33% of his salary.  Liles at 2.6 million for another team doesn't seem atrocious to me.  I'm not expecting to get any assets back.  It is pure salary dump.  You could probably afford to pay the combo of Liles + Kadri $500K more if you had to.  Given Kadri has only been in the NHL for 1/2 a season really and Subban got 2.4, $3 million each doesn't sound impossible.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.200m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($3.000m) / David Clarkson ($5.250m)
Joe Colborne ($0.600m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.700m) / Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Colton Orr ($0.925m)
Trevor Smith ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($3.150m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.117m) / Cody Franson ($3.000m)
Paul Ranger ($1.000m) / Mark Fraser ($1.000m)
Korbinian Holzer ($0.788m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($2.900m)
James Reimer ($1.800m)
OTHER
Buyout: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)
Buyout: Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (2.766% of upper limit)
Matt Frattin ($0.437m?0.5%) Ben Scrivens ($0.062m?0.1%) John-Michael Liles ($1.279m?33.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,832,917; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,767,083

 

[Bullfrog]

Here's my latest attempt at squeezing under the cap.  It involves a prayer that some team will take Liles if we retain 33% of his salary.  Liles at 2.6 million for another team doesn't seem atrocious to me.

Not atrocious? That's understated. It would be complete bargain and I find it extremely unlikely the Leafs would have to retain 33% of his salary.

 

[Jalili]

Here's my latest attempt at squeezing under the cap.  It involves a prayer that some team will take Liles if we retain 33% of his salary.  Liles at 2.6 million for another team doesn't seem atrocious to me.

Not atrocious? That's understated. It would be complete bargain and I find it extremely unlikely the Leafs would have to retain 33% of his salary.

Yeah that's a hell of a lot of salary to eat.

Not that it's based on anything other than a gut feeling, but it might be the length of Liles' contract that's deterring other teams, rather than his cap hit.

Colorado is an obvious fit though. If we ate a smaller chunk of his salary I wonder if they'd take him back.

 

[Redleaf]

Here's my latest attempt at squeezing under the cap.  It involves a prayer that some team will take Liles if we retain 33% of his salary.  Liles at 2.6 million for another team doesn't seem atrocious to me.  I'm not expecting to get any assets back.  It is pure salary dump.  You could probably afford to pay the combo of Liles + Kadri $500K more if you had to.  Given Kadri has only been in the NHL for 1/2 a season really and Subban got 2.4, $3 million each doesn't sound impossible.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.200m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($3.000m) / David Clarkson ($5.250m)
Joe Colborne ($0.600m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.700m) / Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Colton Orr ($0.925m)
Trevor Smith ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($3.150m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.117m) / Cody Franson ($3.000m)
Paul Ranger ($1.000m) / Mark Fraser ($1.000m)
Korbinian Holzer ($0.788m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($2.900m)
James Reimer ($1.800m)
OTHER
Buyout: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)
Buyout: Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (2.766% of upper limit)
Matt Frattin ($0.437m?0.5%) Ben Scrivens ($0.062m?0.1%) John-Michael Liles ($1.279m?33.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,832,917; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,767,083

Doesn't Brennan have a one way contract? He would be your 7th d man if that's the case.