J
Jalili
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Corn Flake said:
He does have elements of both those guys. Kassian is bat sh*t crazy like Downie, but he's also twice as big as him. His skill level is a lot higher than Neil's too.
Waived: Colton Orr
- Thread starter Erndog
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He does have elements of both those guys. Kassian is bat sh*t crazy like Downie, but he's also twice as big as him. His skill level is a lot higher than Neil's too.
ZBBM
Active member
Certainly Orr won't be happy with this, but if he's smart he'll play out his contract with the Marlies (assuming he's not picked up) and avoid fighting. Get out of the game with your faculties intact ... and hope that damage already hasn't been done. Boy, that has to weigh on these guys now that the Boogaard story and the NFL case studies are widely known.
bustaheims
Active member
mirtle: Burke says Orr cleared waivers.
markhmasters: Brian Burke worried that 'rats' will takeover the game if guys like Colton Orr are rendered obsolete
markhmasters: Brian Burke: I don't see accountability and respect in the game right now
markhmasters: Brian Burke worried that 'rats' will takeover the game if guys like Colton Orr are rendered obsolete
markhmasters: Brian Burke: I don't see accountability and respect in the game right now
maplesyrup
New member
Busta Reims said:
Question... How does it work with players who still have term? Does Orr have to be waived again next year or does it matter at all?
maplesyrup
New member
Busta Reims said:
Also, kudos to Burke for rolling with the change as opposed to resisting it whether he agrees with it or not.
bustaheims
Active member
Sarge said:
Unless he retires, he'll have to be waived at the end of camp next season if they decide not to keep him up with the big club. His $1M cap hit would still count against the cap in the summer (again, if he doesn't retire).
Sudafederov
New member
Real_ESPNLeBrun
Via @jonasTSN1050, here's Burke scrum today where he laments waiving Orr and questions today's game, bit.ly/w8KpsP
Via @jonasTSN1050, here's Burke scrum today where he laments waiving Orr and questions today's game, bit.ly/w8KpsP
Zee
Active member
Bender said:
Yeah I understand Burke's position about accountability on the ice, but Orr can't really play hockey. If you have tough guys that can actually skate and contribute that's one thing, but showcasing Colton Orr as a "poor guy has no job left" when his job was pounding the crap out of guys and nothing else...I don't agree with that. I'm sure Colton is a nice guy and all since Burke says so, but he's made millions already and all he did was fight.
L K
Active member
It's things like this that make me question Burke as a GM. The NHL is significantly better if it isn't half full of guys who have a single non-hockey related talent (a willingness to get punched in the face).
The league didn't just force him to banish Milan Lucic to the minors. Stop whining Burke.
The league didn't just force him to banish Milan Lucic to the minors. Stop whining Burke.
Zee
Active member
L K said:
I don't know, maybe it's Burke's way of bitching about the officiating in recent games without actually directly bitching about it. Seems to be teams have been getting away with plenty of cheap stuff with no penalty calls against the Leafs recently, so if this perks up a few ears and helps out there, so be it.
L K said:
I think what he was upset about is the fact that Colton Orr is a standup guy who protects his teammates and thumps people legally when given the chance. However, he can't insert this guy in to the roster because there is nothing he can do to protect his teammates against the rats in the league because the league is protecting the rats. I think all Burke is trying to say is that he would rather there be Colton Orr's in the league than Dan Carcillo's or Steve Downie's.
Britishbulldog
Active member
Significantly Insignificant said:
I agree S.I.
'the notion that players will stick up for themselves and for each other' ... it's a fair question to me and while I have said for quite some time that I didn't think Orr was very useful to the roster I can understand why he has his teams respect, both players and management, what he brought was full of fierce pride and a warriors ethic.
Wondering where the game is going in terms of accountability from a hard nosed guy like Burke isn't really that surprising to me. It's not like he was saying 'I like staged fighting' or sundry other antediluvian perspectives.
Wondering where the game is going in terms of accountability from a hard nosed guy like Burke isn't really that surprising to me. It's not like he was saying 'I like staged fighting' or sundry other antediluvian perspectives.
ZBBM
Active member
Peter D. said:
I'm not going to the mat to defend Colton Orr, but let's get literal for a minute: he is far from a talentless hack. He scored one of the prettiest goals we had all last year and actually played defense.
Somebody like a Link Getz (or whatever his name was) was a talentless hack.
ZBBM
Active member
One of the major obstacles he faced was a lack of other heavyweights to fight, according to Burke.
"If there's no dance partner for Colton, it's pretty hard not to be able to say well, 'Darryl Boyce gives us more on a given night or whoever, Joey Crabb,"' said Burke. "We've made the same judgments, so I'm not throwing stones as much as saying I don't like where it's going."
The Leafs GM has been particularly troubled by a number of recent events. League disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan has suspended three players in the last week following dirty hits.
Burke, who once held Shanahan's job, believes that wouldn't be the case if players were policing the game themselves by fighting.
"I wonder about the accountability in our game and the notion that players would stick up for themselves and for each other," said Burke. "I wonder where we're going with it, that's the only lament I have on this. The fear that if we don't have guys looking after each other, that the rats will take this game over.
"You see guys that run around and start stuff and won't back it up and it makes me sick to my stomach."
Burke's "logic" is pretty darn creaky here.
1. He had to send Orr down because there are no heavyweights for him to "dance" with. (Incidentally, that euphemism can be retired, thank you. "Brain damage partner" is more like it.)
2. The "rats" start something they "won't back up."
So, what connection is there between 1 and 2? None. If all Orr does is fight heavyweights, then the Carcillos of the league can keep on doing whatever they want because they won't be fighting the Orrs -- they'll just duck any fight at all, or else at most get into it with someone closer to their own size.
Staged fights between heavyweights have nothing whatsoever to do with curbing or policing the marginal play of "rats," even if you think that heavyweight fights serve some kind of symbolic role as a form of retribution.
"If there's no dance partner for Colton, it's pretty hard not to be able to say well, 'Darryl Boyce gives us more on a given night or whoever, Joey Crabb,"' said Burke. "We've made the same judgments, so I'm not throwing stones as much as saying I don't like where it's going."
The Leafs GM has been particularly troubled by a number of recent events. League disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan has suspended three players in the last week following dirty hits.
Burke, who once held Shanahan's job, believes that wouldn't be the case if players were policing the game themselves by fighting.
"I wonder about the accountability in our game and the notion that players would stick up for themselves and for each other," said Burke. "I wonder where we're going with it, that's the only lament I have on this. The fear that if we don't have guys looking after each other, that the rats will take this game over.
"You see guys that run around and start stuff and won't back it up and it makes me sick to my stomach."
Burke's "logic" is pretty darn creaky here.
1. He had to send Orr down because there are no heavyweights for him to "dance" with. (Incidentally, that euphemism can be retired, thank you. "Brain damage partner" is more like it.)
2. The "rats" start something they "won't back up."
So, what connection is there between 1 and 2? None. If all Orr does is fight heavyweights, then the Carcillos of the league can keep on doing whatever they want because they won't be fighting the Orrs -- they'll just duck any fight at all, or else at most get into it with someone closer to their own size.
Staged fights between heavyweights have nothing whatsoever to do with curbing or policing the marginal play of "rats," even if you think that heavyweight fights serve some kind of symbolic role as a form of retribution.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
The reason there has to be a dance partner to put Orr in is because the instigator stops Orr from fighting a guy like Carcillo. So with the instigator, if there is no dance partner for Orr, then there is no point to put him in the game.
However, if the instigator was not there, then Orr could go out against Carcillo and fight him if he did something to one of his team mates.
Having said that, I am not sure that it's the appropriate way to get rid of the rats. I'm not one for staged fighting, or fighting in general as a deterrent. I would rather see honourable players play the game rather than cheap shot artists. I think that the league has to do something along the lines of a three strike rule. Do something dangerous and dirty three times and you are gone. Not sure they could ever get it through the NHLPA, or even a legal system, but that to me is the only way to remove the cheap shot artists. Just don't let them play.
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