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Where is Kadri and what's going on with his development?

hap_leaf said:
When you look at all the talent that has flooded out of the Leaf's organization, it really is mindboggling.
Add Boyes and Rask to that list of players we miss.
Hopefully Kadri will not be a player we watch excel on some other team as well.
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I don't know that it's mindboggling. We're talking about a collection of 2nd-3rd liners and a goalie who looks like he'll be pretty good.

edit: And to bring it back to the topic, I think the lesson there is that the organization has been a little impatient with prospects when they haven't immediately established themselves as frontline players. I think we're seeing a lot of that now with attitudes towards Kadri and Schenn.
 
Erndog said:
Can we keep this on Kadri?

I like Kadri and I really believe he will have a Mike Ribeiro like career if he can get a little stronger.  I just checked Ribeiros stats and he was drafted in 1998 and didn't make a real impact until 2003-04.  I don't know why but I imagine a lot of it had to do with strength and conditioning and maturing.  I think (hope) Kadri will have a similar career path.
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Really just need to keep being patient with the prospects even if their development years feel agonizingly long.  Ribiero is one example, Brad Boyes is another..3 full AHL seasons it took him to be ready and he had a lot of similar challenges to overcome as Kadri does now (too much attention, being hailed a star-in-the making under the Toronto microscope, head swelling to the size of the ACC, etc, etc) so it isn't the end of the world. 

Would just be nice to not give up on high end prospects who are still developing when they don't just come out of the gate dominating.
 
I don't know if the Boyes comparison is legitimate here. For starters, saying it took Boyes three full AHL seasons to be ready is a little misleading. He'd probably have spent 04-05 in the NHL absent the lockout.

But moreover there's a huge difference between trying to break onto a good team and trying to break onto a bad team. Boyes got passed around by a bunch of teams who were focused on their immediate issues. Kadri has struggled to find his place on a team that has available spots for talented young players.

The issue with Kadri, and this is sort of a microcosm of the issue with the Leafs as a whole, is whether or not he's showing the level of progress you want to see, not whether or not he's already there. Personally, I haven't been impressed with what I've seen this year.
 
The development of Kadri and all the others who have gone before him is a major concern for this organization.  How much onus is on Kadri to achieve results in the offseason through personal growth (physical/mental) and how much is on the organization to administer this during the season?  I would say its somewhere around 50/50.  So the Leafs can not be entirely to blame for talent that does not pan out.

But when you look at the history of others before him, you feel for Kadri that in another organization he would be ahead.  You wonder if he is being "ruined" which sounds like a strong word but what would Pogge say of his time with the Leafs?  Does he ever wonder while he sits in the dressing room of the Portland Pirates if with another organization he would have developed into an NHL goalie?   

The player (Kadri) definately needs to want it.  To want to be with the big club and do everything possible in the offseason to meet those challenges.
 
Corn Flake said:
There are plenty of examples.

Boyes is just one, and its far more than just the years spent in the AHL.
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Right. I'm saying I don't think Boyes is a good example here. Boyes is a guy who was kept out of NHL lineups by factors that were largely outside of his control. Kadri has gotten shots and hasn't been ready.

Again the issue with Kadri is one of stalled or sputtering progress. I'm sure there are better examples of guys who did struggle and stall and eventually put it together but that's why we're in agreement about him still having potential.

That said, and this is something that definitely applies to Boyes, trading a prospect doesn't necessarily mean someone is giving up on them.
 
hap_leaf said:
But when you look at the history of others before him, you feel for Kadri that in another organization he would be ahead.  You wonder if he is being "ruined" which sounds like a strong word but what would Pogge say of his time with the Leafs?  Does he ever wonder while he sits in the dressing room of the Portland Pirates if with another organization he would have developed into an NHL goalie?   
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I don't think there's much to suggest that the Leafs have problems developing players. There's not much in the way of young players who struggled on the Leafs but really found a place elsewhere. If anything it seems to be the other way around.

The Leafs problem of late has been something else entirely. They've had good, young contributing players and have failed to recognize what they had.
 
Saint Nik said:
That said, and this is something that definitely applies to Boyes, trading a prospect doesn't necessarily mean someone is giving up on them.
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Well I certainly agree with that.  Its a phrase that gets thrown out all too quickly at times when a trade goes down involving a prospect.
 
Sarge said:
Anyone think Kadri is either a full-time Leaf next year or not in this organization at all?
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No. I think there's room in between that. I wouldn't be stunned if he played 35+ games in the AHL and NHL.

That said if he's 22 and having trouble finding a spot in the line-up there's obviously going to be a re-evaluation of him and the team would probably be more inclined to deal him.
 
Sarge said:
Anyone think Kadri is either a full-time Leaf next year or not in this organization at all?
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No. Unless there's waiver issues. (can someone confirm his waiver status for next year?)

 
Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
Still on his entry level contract, no waiver issues.
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That's not how it works. However, Kadri won't have played enough NHL games to have to be placed on waivers by the time next season starts.
 
In that case, I can think of zero reason to trade him away. He's still our top forward prospect (though you could argue Frattin has passed him.)
 
Bullfrog said:
In that case, I can think of zero reason to trade him away. He's still our top forward prospect (though you could argue Frattin has passed him.)
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I agree. No reason to move him, unless, obviously, the deal is one that can't/shouldn't be passed up.
 
FWIW, barring a change to how waiver eligibility is determined in the new CBA, even with a full season next year, Kadri will be waiver exempt into the 2013/14 season.
 
Okay. Glad to hear we're not forced into a decision on him at this point. I really hope he makes the team next year.
 
if kadri can't make the team out of the gate next year..i don't think he ever will ..it sure won't be because the talent on the leafs is just of such a high caliber
 
Saint Nik said:
I don't think there's much to suggest that the Leafs have problems developing players. There's not much in the way of young players who struggled on the Leafs but really found a place elsewhere.
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Not necessarily that they "struggled" here but that did not earn their full potential.  Whether a prospect or a regular player, why are the Leafs not able to get full value from certain guys?  I would not say Kadri is "struggling".  I am quite amazed at his skill shown on his call-up.  But it is obvious as well that he is not strong on the stick and gets muscled off into the boards with regularity.  Again next training camp, everyone will be anxious to see if he comes stronger.  I fear we will see Kadri blossom on another team because they are not patient with him or do not have the resources he needs.

And not to say that the prospects who begin under the Leaf tutelage go on to remarkable careers elsewhere.  Rather we are left wondering what sort of stagnation has afflicted their development (Jeremy Williams, Tlusty) or just throwing them into trades (Victor Stalberg).  You know, we trade Tlusty for Paradis and then Paradis etc for Versteeg then Versteeg for draft picks.  We just can't seem to settle on anyone and give them a chance.


 
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