Why Didn't we go for a Proven Veteran??

[Capital Leaf]

I just don't see any downside of having someone like Justin Williams, Brad Richards, or Martin St. Louis on this roster.  To me it is all upside!!

The downside is we don't want the team winning this year. We want them losing.

And for a team to really pursue a player there does have to be at least some reciprocal interest. If you call up an agent to schedule a meeting and he says no...who's going to leak that to Kypreos?

Maybe that's the difference between me and some other fans...I actually want to see them start to win to get the winning feeling back in the dressing room and around the team. 

 

[bustaheims]

Anyways my frustration is they aren't trying to sign a proven winner top 6 type guy...I know some will say, "how do we know the Leafs didn't try"....well in today's day and age with guys like Darren Dreger, Bob Mckenzie, Nick Kypreos etc...we would would have heard had the Leafs made an effort or were pursuing them.

Well, we did hear that the Leafs met with most of the bigger names out there in the UFA market, so it's probably safe to assume that included guys like Richards, Williams, etc. What they likely heard was that these guys weren't particularly interested in signing up with a rebuilding team like the Leafs, or that it would cost much more than it would be worth.

 

[TML fan]

Sounds like some are still struggling with the idea that not everybody wants to play here.

 

[Frank E]

I just don't see any downside of having someone like Justin Williams, Brad Richards, or Martin St. Louis on this roster.  To me it is all upside!!

The downside is we don't want the team winning this year. We want them losing.

And for a team to really pursue a player there does have to be at least some reciprocal interest. If you call up an agent to schedule a meeting and he says no...who's going to leak that to Kypreos?

Maybe that's the difference between me and some other fans...I actually want to see them start to win to get the winning feeling back in the dressing room and around the team.

But to win, consistently and big, they're going to have to lose for a while to draft better.

If Shanahan and Babcock are to be belived, and I have no reason to doubt them at this point, they're likely going to end up in the bottom 5 of the league this year...and intentionally so.

Adjust your expectations accordingly. 

 

[Arn]

Looks like St. Louis is retiring.

That's no excuse not to sign for the Leafs

 

[hobarth]

Vermette resigned with Arizona so it's possible for losers to sign quality veterans.

Maybe it's tougher for a Cdn loser to attract veterans?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Vermette resigned with Arizona so it's possible for losers to sign quality veterans.

Maybe it's tougher for a Cdn loser to attract veterans?

It's too bad nothing similar like this happened with the Leafs this offseason to show how dumb this comment is.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Vermette resigned with Arizona so it's possible for losers to sign quality veterans.

Maybe it's tougher for a Cdn loser to attract veterans?

Again, Robidas and Winnik are veterans.  Booth is a veteran.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The benefit of a veteran cannot be understated when you have a very young team...this isn't actually going to be a young team next year.

Kadri, Panik, Gardiner, Rielly, JVR and maybe Hyman are the only young players that are going to be on the roster.  Of those guys only Hyman lacks NHL exposure. 

Next year is when we are going to start to see the youth start to break out on the roster. This year is a team filled with guys in the 28-32 range who aren't good enough to win but will be swapped for assets at the deadline over the next 1-2 years.

I don't really think LKs point here is getting enough attention, both in this thread and on these boards in general, so I just wanted to parrot what he said a little bit. Next years team will very much be a "bridge" team basically. Especially with all the players that we added on July 1st. There's really only one player who will definitely be here for the long-haul, and that's Rielly. The fate of younger guys like Kadri, JVR, Bernier, and Gardiner will all be determined likely during the season. And then players like Phaneuf, Polak, Lupul, and Bozak are just biding their time until they get moved. The only players besides Rielly that will be under 24 years old will be guys like Hyman, Bailey, and Leivo who will probably be filling smaller roles on the team throughout the year. There's a pretty good chance we don't have a single rookie play over 25 games this coming year. We don't need to bring in a bunch of veterans specially for the kids because there really won't be very many.

And again like LK said it'll be next year the team will have to worry about this. There's a strong chance we could see Nylander, Marner, Kapanen, Brown, Leipsic all playing on the team in 16/17. That's a ton of rookies who will have a lot of pressure on them. It's then we'll have to make sure that they don't get Oiler'd?.

 

[bustaheims]

And again like LK said it'll be next year the team will have to worry about this. There's a strong chance we could see Nylander, Marner, Kapanen, Brown, Leipsic all playing on the team in 16/17. That's a ton of rookies who will have a lot of pressure on them. It's then we'll have to make sure that they don't get Oiler'd?.

It's because of that that I don't think we'll see all of those players as full-time guys in 16/17. Nylander and Marner will almost certainly be. Likely Kapanen, as well, depending on how his first full season in North America goes. Leipsic and Brown might still be held back for a year. I think they'll try to introduce guys a little more gradually so they don't have a team full of raw rookies.

 

[Kin]

And again like LK said it'll be next year the team will have to worry about this. There's a strong chance we could see Nylander, Marner, Kapanen, Brown, Leipsic all playing on the team in 16/17. That's a ton of rookies who will have a lot of pressure on them. It's then we'll have to make sure that they don't get Oiler'd?.

Even then though, I think the idea that the reason the Oilers haven't grown the way some people thought they might has nothing to do with the presence of wily veterans imparting wisdom. It's about them not building a well-rounded team. It's about them doing things like passing on someone like Landeskog for RNH because they just tried to accumulate as much skill as possible without caring about how the pieces fit.

Look at the Kane-Toews Blackhawks. They didn't have grizzled old veterans around teaching the kids about the game. The first year they were in the league the Blackhawks had some older players but mainly they were guys at the tail ends of their careers like Robert Lang or interchangeable role players like Yanic Perreault or Craig Adams.

The next year, when the Hawks got good, they barely had a single player over 30. The year after that, when they won the Cup, they brought in some older players but they were guys like Marian Hossa who was a near HOF player in his prime or John Madden who was providing a valuable and needed service on the team's PK.

The Hawks built a winning team and leadership emerged from it. They didn't try to tack on leadership like it was something you could just buy.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It's because of that that I don't think we'll see all of those players as full-time guys in 16/17. Nylander and Marner will almost certainly be. Likely Kapanen, as well, depending on how his first full season in North America goes. Leipsic and Brown might still be held back for a year. I think they'll try to introduce guys a little more gradually so they don't have a team full of raw rookies.

Yeah even as I was typing them out I thought "holy crap that'll be a lot of rookies". Nylander and Marner will be virtual locks like you said, the others will be more wait and see. Kapanen would still be pretty young and a little less seasoned than Nylander. But Brown and Leipsic would both be in their 3rd professional seasons in 16/17, so it might be tough to put them back in the A.

 

[Frank E]

And again like LK said it'll be next year the team will have to worry about this. There's a strong chance we could see Nylander, Marner, Kapanen, Brown, Leipsic all playing on the team in 16/17. That's a ton of rookies who will have a lot of pressure on them. It's then we'll have to make sure that they don't get Oiler'd?.

It's because of that that I don't think we'll see all of those players as full-time guys in 16/17. Nylander and Marner will almost certainly be. Likely Kapanen, as well, depending on how his first full season in North America goes. Leipsic and Brown might still be held back for a year. I think they'll try to introduce guys a little more gradually so they don't have a team full of raw rookies.

Yeah, we'll see I guess, but I don't think they make Brown or Leipsic do 3 years in the A...and I'm just assuming they progress this year.

 

[Kin]

Yeah even as I was typing them out I thought "holy crap that'll be a lot of rookies".

Maybe, but look at that 08-09 Blackhawks roster sometime. Not a bunch of rookies, no, but 19 year old Kane, 20 year old Toews, 21 year old Hjalmarsson, 22 year old Ladd, Barker, Versteeg Bolland, 23 year old Seabrook, Brouwer, Byfuglien and Fraser. Keith and Sharp are practically the old men of that team at 25 and 26.

 

[wnc096]

The Leafs are trying to bottom out next year. Most guys with options won't want to sign there. If the Leafs call up an agent and say "How would your player feel about signing here" and the player says no thanks...why would you hear about that? Why would the Leafs put it out there that they were trying to sign guys they had no shot at?

Signing veteran leadership might be in the game plan for when guys like Marner and Nylander are actually on the club but aside from Rielly who really needs mentoring that figures to be a big part of the team when they're contending?

Sure but you have to admit if we offered someone like Justin Williams an extra $250 000 a year over Washington he would have took it.  Players for the most part go to the team that pays the most....just the way it is....

*Not just the way it is.

Nik made the right point, there really isn't any need for Williams or Richards at this point, regardless of if they wanted to sign here or not.

Let's change that figure to $500000 more per year...so Williams would have an extra million dollars after 2 years.  No way he doesn't accept that offer...
When a player is probably getting the last big contract of his life he isn't going to squander $1 million. 
Plus worst case if the team isn't doing well he knows the team will deal him to a contender at the deadline anyways so the player can have his cake and eat it too...
Win Win for him

The oilers tried throwing money at free agents for years....they got shot down time and time again.  Even when they did land an overpaid free agent, the team somehow got even worse...

 

[bustaheims]

Yeah, we'll see I guess, but I don't think they make Brown or Leipsic do 3 years in the A...and I'm just assuming they progress this year.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do. I mean, if they're trying to emulate the way the Wings have done things, there's a very real chance they'll at least start that 3rd season in the A. The goal is to not bring these guys up to the big club as more than super short-term injury fill ins until they're ready to stick long-term.

 

[Frank E]

Yeah, we'll see I guess, but I don't think they make Brown or Leipsic do 3 years in the A...and I'm just assuming they progress this year.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do. I mean, if they're trying to emulate the way the Wings have done things, there's a very real chance they'll at least start that 3rd season in the A. The goal is to not bring these guys up to the big club as more than super short-term injury fill ins until they're ready to stick long-term.

Do the Wings keep point-a-game guys in the A for 3 years?

 

[bustaheims]

Do the Wings keep point-a-game guys in the A for 3 years?

Well, neither Brown nor Leipsic were point-a-game guys, but, yes. Nyquist started his 3rd season in the AHL and he was a point-a-game player in his time there, and there's a good chance Pulkkinen will start his 3rd season there in October.

 

[Frank E]

Do the Wings keep point-a-game guys in the A for 3 years?

Well, neither Brown nor Leipsic were point-a-game guys, but, yes. Nyquist started his 3rd season in the AHL and he was a point-a-game player in his time there, and there's a good chance Pulkkinen will start his 3rd season there in October.

I thought Nyquist caused a cap problem, and that was why he was sent down...and I'm just making an assumption that these guys progress to that point this year, more or less.

 

[bustaheims]

I thought Nyquist caused a cap problem, and that was why he was sent down...and I'm just making an assumption that these guys progress to that point this year, more or less.

I don't believe he did, but, either way, he only ended up earning the opportunity for a full-time spot because Datsyuk and Zetterberg got hurt in 13/14. If they thought he was really ready to be the player we know him to be now, they would have found a way to make it work under the cap (if that was actually an issue - which I'm pretty sure it wasn't). He was a PPG player in the A, and they still sent him back for more seasoning.