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2025 Offseason Thread: Spring Cleaning

Bullfrog said:
Even considering moving Matthews is nuts.

I know it sucks, but they pushed the series to 7 games against the defending champions (and runner-up the year prior/3rd consecutive year in EC finals). They had two really horrible games but also played great in the others. They have the talent to win. Massively improved goaltending; a very good defense core; and three of the best forwards in the league. Better coaching.

I'd make minor changes at most. If that. Full year of Laughton and Carlo might help.

The only big change I'd make is losing one of the forwards for a superstar defenceman. But where are you getting that?
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All due respect Bullfrog but management has been saying this for the last 5-6 years now. "We're really close", no they're not. When your main players clam up during the biggest moments you aren't close. The core 4 had a combined 2 points in the final 4 games of the series. This happens again and again. The mix is not right, something is off. A major shakeup is needed.
 
Zee said:
All due respect Bullfrog but management has been saying this for the last 5-6 years now. "We're really close", no they're not. When your main players clam up during the biggest moments you aren't close. The core 4 had a combined 2 points in the final 4 games of the series. This happens again and again. The mix is not right, something is off. A major shakeup is needed.
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It's weird because, this team is really close. If either Knies or Nylander convert on their breakaways in game 3 overtime we are probably talking about this team in the ECF. That's how slim the margins are. Florida is a really good team, like really good.

There is something weird about how fragile this team is when things don't go their way. Their lack of fight is disturbing. They choose to roll over rather than give every effort. This year, they almost made the change but old habits die hard I guess.

A shake up is coming. Hopefully the Leafs management realizes the "depth" of Jarnkrok, Kampf, Robertson, McMann, Reaves, etc... anyone else that they refuse to play or doesn't produce in the playoffs isn't the depth this team needs. I'll say this, starting the season with Liljegren's $3m on the books instead of accruing that cap space was a colossal error in management. It sounded like Brock Boeser could have been had for a 1st round pick at the deadline but the Leafs did not have the space. Boeser in the top 6 would have been some nice additional scoring punch. Last playoffs Brock had 7 goals in 12 games, but alas...
 
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dappleganger said:
It's weird because, this team is really close. If either Knies or Nylander convert on their breakaways in game 3 overtime we are probably talking about this team in the ECF. That's how slim the margins are. Florida is a really good team, like really good.

There is something weird about how fragile this team is when things don't go their way. Their lack of fight is disturbing. They choose to roll over rather than give every effort. This year, they almost made the change but old habits die hard I guess.

A shake up is coming. Hopefully the Leafs management realizes the "depth" of Jarnkrok, Kampf, Robertson, McMann, etc... anyone else that they refuse to play or doesn't produce in the playoffs isn't the depth this team needs. I'll say this, starting the season with Liljegren's $3m on the books instead of accruing that cap space was a colossal error in management. It sounded like Brock Boeser could have been had for a 1st round pick at the deadline but the Leafs did not have the space. Boeser in the top 6 would have been some nice additional scoring punch. Last playoffs Brock had 7 goals in 12 games, but alas...
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If management’s serious about making real noise, they need to hold back some cap space heading into the season. Don’t blow it all in July just because it’s there. The smart play is flexibility, keep room for an in-season swing if the right trade opportunity pops up. Every year, some star gets fed up or some team panics, think Rantanen. Be ready. The UFA market this summer? Mid at best. No need to overspend on depth guys just to say you did something. Be patient. Stay lethal.
 
At this point I really don't care if any of this is kept together. I've seen enough over the last however many years. The first half was wasted and the next half we gave everything to great regular season RFAs when we didn't have to. I'm really sour on pretty much everyone not named Stolarz and Tanev.
 
The Leafs also have a pretty lousy prospect base, as well no first round picks for the next couple of years. They blew their wallet this spring, so it's going to be tough to get any quality players when you don't have assets to trade for them...you can go UFA fishing, but we generally know how that works out from a price/performance perspective.
 
herman said:
I have nothing new to add that I didn't already say last offseason lol

Healthy Matthews might have carried them a bit farther, which, in my estimation is a coinflip between a less embarrassing series loss to Florida or a 3rd rd ticket with a luckier Gm 3 outcome.
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Ah, can't help myself

I guess I can just re-iterate the importance of centre depth; Lundell and his line torched the top heavy Lightning and Leaf rosters. A middle-six two-way RH centre adds oodles of flexibility.

Matthews, injured or otherwise, should not need an elite Selke playmaker to put up 70+ pts.

Re-investing in mobile two-way defensemen is also a priority as I think we have plenty of crease-clearers now. If there's an area that Treliving has historically excelled at, it's identifying two-way defensemen. (Frickin' Klingberg)

I liked a lot of what Berube did to re-build the Leafs play structure, but I would like to see more regular season mixes so he has proven ideas to work with when the playoffs come by. Might not have to make a conscious decision to do that going forward.
 
Bender said:
At this point I really don't care if any of this is kept together. I've seen enough over the last however many years. The first half was wasted and the next half we gave everything to great regular season RFAs when we didn't have to. I'm really sour on pretty much everyone not named Stolarz and Tanev.
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I like Woll too, can't blame him for what happened. Home-grown goalie is never a bad thing
 
Offseason moves, I would go with something like this:

Knies - Matthews - P. Kane
Cowan - Bennet - Nylander
Marchand - Tavares - Domi
Pacioretty - Laughton - McMann


McCabe - Tanev
OEL - Carlo
Benoit - Jokiharju/Rutta/Fabro/Ceci

Unless you're Ok with Benoit and OEL pairing on the bottom, could try something like:

McCabe - Tanev
Orlov - Carlo
Benoit - OEL

I would trust Treliving to figure out the D situation but Rielly gone. I would really love poaching Noah Dobson out of New York but I don't think you could get that done without Knies going the other way.
 
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herman said:
Ah, can't help myself

I guess I can just re-iterate the importance of centre depth; Lundell and his line torched the top heavy Lightning and Leaf rosters. A middle-six two-way RH centre adds oodles of flexibility.

Matthews, injured or otherwise, should not need an elite Selke playmaker to put up 70+ pts.
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I don't think you lose a lot on the first line replacing Marner with Domi.
 
4EVRLEAFAN said:
Couldn't get past the first line, what's it going to take for you guys to see that Matthews is not a clutch player, he's weak, he's either hurt or just disappears every playoffs, it's been 9 years, how many more do you want? It was time 3 years ago when he was thrown around like a rag doll against Montreal and just sat there and laughed, and it's time now, he's done it's over he's the first one that has to go, period, the end. End of rant . 😁
I'll leave this from the Montreal series. Have a good day.
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Ya I had mentioned this as well the play above. How you sit there and laugh is unexplainable.
 
dappleganger said:
I don't think you lose a lot on the first line replacing Marner with Domi.
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Maybe for short bursts here and there against the habs or other woeful sad sacks, but that's going to burn you more often than not.

Domi is best suited for a counter-attack line with robust defensive winger support.

Matthews needs forecheckers who can still rip a shot off quickly and not completely poop the bed in the DZ.
 
herman said:
Maybe for short bursts here and there against the habs or other woeful sad sacks, but that's going to burn you more often than not.

Domi is best suited for a counter-attack line with robust defensive winger support.

Matthews needs forecheckers who can still rip a shot off quickly and not completely poop the bed in the DZ.
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The best comparable we have is from 2023-2024 with the Bertuzzi - Matthews - Marner line (92 minutes) and Bertuzzi - Matthews - Domi (147 minutes).

The Marner contingent was better defensively but wasn't as much of a threat to score and the Domi contingent allowed more on the defensive side but was more an offensive threat with expected goal % being within 4% between the two lines.
 
It all starts with aggressive leadership.

Shanahan is not that because he did not build the type of team it takes to win in the playoffs....which he knows from his own experiencd. Rogers held him back probably but he also didn't push for "going for it" like Masai did for the Raptors. Rogers is not a competitive group so the next in command needs to be ultra competitive and willing to raise his voice. Shanahan didn't do that....obviously. Because it was apparent even to the fairweather fan of hockey that the key guys didn't have what it takes to win. If 2019 and 2020 didn't give a strong indication, 2021 Montreal series was 100% conclusive for any mature business minded leader. And even for most of us on this Forum. But we had to continue to suffer and waste time because of Shanahan and Rogers failures in leadership.



Then it goes to leadership on the ice.

Certainly Marner Tavares and Matthews aren't it. Im not saying trade Matthews. But you need someone else who is the heart and soul of the team. We have a lot of good guys that have soul like Stolarz and Woll and Tanev and Benoit and Knies...... but it needs to be someone who is elite or close to elite and upfront. Willy is great. But not a leader. Tavares had two kicks at the can (two teams) and never got out of the 2nd round....only got to 5 games won prior to Leafs and with the Leafs prior to this year. Let's be honest....he's not the guy either.

The only way I see Leafs winning a Cup ever:

1. Rorgers is replaced with a very aggressive owner like Vinny Viola who is all about winning.

2. Shanahan is replaced with a very aggressive business minded leader like Masai Ujuri who will tell rogers to back off and will "go for broke" instead of the slow car crash we just experienced over the past 8 years.

3. Toronto gets a second team and there is real business competition for the hockey dollar.

4. Fans all unite to boycott those dismal product of failure - which is never happening because we get these tepid results....the ticket prices go up....merchandise goes up in price...to purchase the streaming you have to pay multiple sources and we smile and beg for more instead of saying enuff is enuff and be willing to say f@<k off!!. Thats Toronto the Good!!!


Good luck to the Leafs and all the fans!
 
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Bullfrog said:
Even considering moving Matthews is nuts.

I know it sucks, but they pushed the series to 7 games against the defending champions (and runner-up the year prior/3rd consecutive year in EC finals). They had two really horrible games but also played great in the others. They have the talent to win. Massively improved goaltending; a very good defense core; and three of the best forwards in the league. Better coaching.

I'd make minor changes at most. If that. Full year of Laughton and Carlo might help.

The only big change I'd make is losing one of the forwards for a superstar defenceman. But where are you getting that?
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That's certainly one way to go and probably the easiest and safest. Assuming Marner would come back (I don't think that's likely), you just throw however many dollars at him it takes, tinker around the edges and run it back. Pretty much a certainty that team would make the playoffs which means an additional 2 games or more of home revenue. And who knows, maybe the stars align and the Leafs make it past the second round...maybe even win a Cup. Maybe with a full year of the Berube system under their belts, the dump/chase/forecheck game would work better especially if the roster is adjusted.

I consider that approach to be playing not to lose, as opposed to trying to win. This is the time to take a chance and really change the makeup and character of the team. Maybe there is a set-back, maybe they miss the playoffs for a year but come back hungrier and more motivated. Or maybe they find the right combination of middle and bottom-6 players to support the top end talent that remains.

This team needs a shake-up. There was talk at one point about a rift in the dressing room. core vs non-core. The comment by Matthews regarding passengers makes me think this is still an issue. Yes, a whole bunch of players in the bottom 6 didn't score at all in the playoffs, but where was Auston in game 5 and 7...he was as much a passenger as anyone else.

Sometimes you just need a change.
 
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