2011 Blue Jays/MLB Thread

[Kin]

1. Why would you be stunned?

That was sarcasm. You see, I wasn't stunned.

2. Can you point to the part where I was arguing with you? It's pretty clear I wasn't.

Then I have no idea whatsoever why you'd quote what I said about the current state of the pitching staff. I assumed, given that you did, that your comment was somehow in response to mine. It was confusing.

 

[Kin]

Actually, the more I look at the numbers the more I'm inclined to think the rotation is a bigger problem than the bullpen is. Putting Morrow aside for a second the Jays may have to go into the off-season looking for two or three starters.

 

[maplesyrup]

1. Why would you be stunned?

That was sarcasm. You see, I wasn't stunned.

2. Can you point to the part where I was arguing with you? It's pretty clear I wasn't.

Then I have no idea whatsoever why you'd quote what I said about the current state of the pitching staff. I assumed, given that you did, that your comment was somehow in response to mine. It was confusing.

See, I don't understand why you're being sarcastic. You think I'm overly giddy about our pitching staff? Yeah, I'm bullish on almost all of our position players but I don't think I've ever pointed to the pitching staff staff as a unit that doesn't need some work.

I replied to your reply to Arn because you've only singled out Romero as having a good year... and while I might be inclined to to agree with you, I think it would be a disservice to not mention to Arn that at times, Morrow has shown he can be among the most dominating pitchers in the AL. - I'm only adding to the conversation here... Not everything is a fight, Nik. - though often I know you try to turn things in to one. 

 

[Kin]

See, I don't understand why you're being sarcastic.

There's a parable about a scorpion and a frog you may find helpful.

I replied to your reply to Arn because you've only singled out Romero as having a good year... and while I might be inclined to to agree with you, I think it would be a disservice to mention to Arn that at times, Morrow has shown he can be among the most dominating pitchers in the AL.

While I'm sure that what you meant is that it would be a disservice not to mention that Morrow's been good at times, if you're trying to explain what's gone wrong this year, which I was, saying that only Romero's had a good year is just the facts of the matter.

- I'm only adding to the conversation here... Not everything is a fight, Nik. - though often I know you try to turn things in to one.

Yes, clearly I'm the one being overly combative here.

 

[maplesyrup]

I'm sure that what you meant is that it would be a disservice not to mention that Morrow's been good at times, if you're trying to explain what's gone wrong this year, which I was, saying that only Romero's had a good year is just the facts of the matter.

Yes, I forgot the "not" which is now corrected, thank you. No, I'm not trying to mention Morrow's been just good at times... I think I said "dominant" which again, I think Arn probably would be interested in knowing... Sorry Arn if I've assumed wrong here.

 

[Kin]

Yes, I forgot the "not" which is now corrected, thank you. No, I'm not trying to mention Morrow's been just good at times... I think I said "dominant" which again, I think Arn probably would be interested in knowing... Sorry Arn if I've assumed wrong here.

Warring adjectives aside, the point remains that if you're going to sum up his season you'd have to go with mediocre-bad. Does he have a bigger ratio of really good games measured out by equally bad games than a typical pitcher at about his overall level? I honestly don't know. He may, as I suspect that's pretty common for pitchers who strike out a lot of hitters, but I don't know how significant that is. 

 

[bustaheims]

Actually, the more I look at the numbers the more I'm inclined to think the rotation is a bigger problem than the bullpen is. Putting Morrow aside for a second the Jays may have to go into the off-season looking for two or three starters.

I'd say Cecil's looked good enough since coming back from Vegas to earn a spot in the rotation to start next season. He''s giving up a few too many homers to be a front of the rotation guy just yet, but he's done a very good job of keeping the other team from getting on base. Villenueva is a bit of a wildcard. He looked good for a while, but, may not have the stamina to be a full time starter. Past that, hopefully at least one of Drabek, Alvarez, Jenkins, etc can step up and become a legit MLB starter next year. They'll need to add some arms this winter, for sure, but I'm not sure they'll be looking for more than 1 that can start full time.

 

[Kin]

I'd say Cecil's looked good enough since coming back from Vegas to earn a spot in the rotation to start next season. He''s giving up a few too many homers to be a front of the rotation guy just yet, but he's done a very good job of keeping the other team from getting on base. Villenueva is a bit of a wildcard. He looked good for a while, but, may not have the stamina to be a full time starter. Past that, hopefully at least one of Drabek, Alvarez, Jenkins, etc can step up and become a legit MLB starter next year. They'll need to add some arms this winter, for sure, but I'm not sure they'll be looking for more than 1 that can start full time.

You're right to an extent. I probably should have included that any sort of need to add 2-3 pitchers next year will depend on how motivated they are to compete next year. If they're targeting 2013 or 2014 as more realistic targets than, yeah, they may be more inclined to let Cecil and their prospects throw next year which may make a lot of sense.

 

[bustaheims]

You're right to an extent. I probably should have included that any sort of need to add 2-3 pitchers next year will depend on how motivated they are to compete next year. If they're targeting 2013 or 2014 as more realistic targets than, yeah, they may be more inclined to let Cecil and their prospects throw next year which may make a lot of sense.

My guess is that, while I'm sure they'd like to compete next season, the blueprint was designed more with 2013 or 2014 in mind. That's the impression I've had for the last year or so.

 

[maplesyrup]

My guess is that, while I'm sure they'd like to compete next season, the blueprint was designed more with 2013 or 2014 in mind. That's the impression I've had for the last year or so.

I've felt the same way too.

 

[Kin]

My guess is that, while I'm sure they'd like to compete next season, the blueprint was designed more with 2013 or 2014 in mind. That's the impression I've had for the last year or so.

Could be. But things can change and a strong finish to the season may have them at 85-86 wins and convince them to look at next year slightly differently.

 

[bustaheims]

Could be. But things can change and a strong finish to the season may have them at 85-86 wins and convince them to look at next year slightly differently.

Maybe, though, the impression that I have of AA is that he's not likely to break from the plan because of a strong finish. Should the opportunity arise to improve the starting staff at a reasonable price, I'm sure he'd jump on it, but, outside of that, I imagine he'll remain patient and stick with his blueprint.

 

[Kin]

Maybe, though, the impression that I have of AA is that he's not likely to break from the plan because of a strong finish. Should the opportunity arise to improve the starting staff at a reasonable price, I'm sure he'd jump on it, but, outside of that, I imagine he'll remain patient and stick with his blueprint.

That's all I'm saying. I don't think he'll sign any bad deals, or any knowingly bad deals, out of desperation but if there's a few starters that would provide stability and an ability to compete next year at reasonable prices he very well may go for it.

 

[maplesyrup]

Lawrie and Rasmus coming up big again. I wonder how many shirts Anthopoulos has destroyed Hulk Hogan style since the two have been here.  8)

 

[bustaheims]

That's all I'm saying. I don't think he'll sign any bad deals, or any knowingly bad deals, out of desperation but if there's a few starters that would provide stability and an ability to compete next year at reasonable prices he very well may go for it.

I guess so. I just don't see him actively or aggressively pursuing much in terms of starting pitching this winter - especially considering the free agent class is largely underwhelming.

 

[Kin]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/08/19/draft-cap/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a2

Interesting article on the baseball draft. On the one hand it talks about MLB's concerns with the big bonuses being paid out and how it may be addressed in the coming labour negotiations. On the other it talks about how the teams who are investing heavily in the draft are the smaller market clubs.

 

[Derk]

Is Oakland's pitching really as good as one run and nine hits over the last 20 innings? Three hit shutout yesterday, one run on four hits through 8 innings today.

Jays pitching hasn't been too bad, either, but the A's have just been better.

 

[bustaheims]

Is Oakland's pitching really as good as one run and nine hits over the last 20 innings?

Harden was legitimately unhittable last night - that change-up of his was just falling off the table just as it entered the hitting zone. It was quite the performance. Gonzalez hasn't been quite as dominant tonight, but, he definitely hasn't made a lot of mistakes or given the Jays many good pitches to hit. He's done a good job of sticking to the edges of the strike zone and getting the Jays to swing at bad pitches. Not having Bautista in the line-up tonight hasn't helped either.

 

[Derk]

Is Oakland's pitching really as good as one run and nine hits over the last 20 innings?

Harden was legitimately unhittable last night - that change-up of his was just falling off the table just as it entered the hitting zone. It was quite the performance. Gonzalez hasn't been quite as dominant tonight, but, he definitely hasn't made a lot of mistakes or given the Jays many good pitches to hit. He's done a good job of sticking to the edges of the strike zone and getting the Jays to swing at bad pitches. Not having Bautista in the line-up tonight hasn't helped either.

These are the times I miss having cable. Watching the come from behind win over the Angels was pretty cool on the weekend, though.

Edit: Looks like the bullpen threw away any chance of the Jays coming back in this one - Litsch gave up a double and a single with two outs, and Lewis came in and gave up a homer - 5-1 now. Looks like yet another loss to Oakland.

 

[Kin]

I understand scratching Bautista for McCoy if Bautista wasn't feeling well but does it make any sense at all to bat McCoy leadoff and slide Escobar to third?