2011 Blue Jays/MLB Thread

[Deebo]

Uh oh.. More lying?

http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/2011/12/kelly-johnson-im-not-willing-to-change.html

"Kelly’s got positional flexibility," Anthopoulos said, as quoted by Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star. "He played a lot of left field before. We talked about signing him as a left fielder. There’s absolutely a scenario where he could be a candidate for left field. So we haven’t ruled (that) out if there’s a player we can get.

Speaking this afternoon with James Cybulski of TSN Radio (audio on their shitty Podcasts page), Johnson was asked about the potential of seeing time in left field next year, and if he was "open to change positions, if need be." His response...

"Uh... no, I'm not. But that's not anything that's been talked about to me. I'm signed to play second and be at second, so I'm not concerned and not thinking about that too much."

 

[L K]

Uh oh.. More lying?

http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/2011/12/kelly-johnson-im-not-willing-to-change.html

"Kelly?s got positional flexibility," Anthopoulos said, as quoted by Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star. "He played a lot of left field before. We talked about signing him as a left fielder. There?s absolutely a scenario where he could be a candidate for left field. So we haven?t ruled (that) out if there?s a player we can get.

Speaking this afternoon with James Cybulski of TSN Radio (audio on their shitty Podcasts page), Johnson was asked about the potential of seeing time in left field next year, and if he was "open to change positions, if need be." His response...

"Uh... no, I'm not. But that's not anything that's been talked about to me. I'm signed to play second and be at second, so I'm not concerned and not thinking about that too much."

What is up with AA and putting everyone in LF.  Thames, Snider, Encarnacion, McCoy, Johnson........and yeah, that sounds awesome to have a disgruntled player right when he signs.

 

[Kin]

Guys, guys, guys. You're looking at this the wrong way. Sure it looks bad now or for next year but by doing this AA sets a precedent. Second basemen in the system will be on notice that they'd be expected to be able to pull duty in LF too. Can you imagine the positive impact that could have on the team in 2018?

 

[L K]

Guys, guys, guys. You're looking at this the wrong way. Sure it looks bad now or for next year but by doing this AA sets a precedent. Second basemen in the system will be on notice that they'd be expected to be able to pull duty in LF too. Can you imagine the positive impact that could have on the team in 2018?

Maybe it's the fact that the Marlins threw money at anything and everything this offseason but I'm really getting tired of rebuilding for 2023. Baseball prospects have terrible panning out rates and every signing/trade being about option years and contract control is not inspiring me to be a better fan.  Beeston talked about this massive doubling of salary last year, this year, after the season, and then changes his tune in the offseason.  The salary bump was mentioned both as keeping internal players and free agents.

AA has clearly set out that he won't overpay free agents so that essentially takes them out of all top player bidding, and all of his moves have been about cheap control of players, so that money obviously isn't coming down the pipes any time soon either....so yeah, we can watch Brett Cecil blow up on the mound again this year as the #4 starter, watch a bullpen made up entirely of Rule 5 draft picks and have a nice team OBP of .320 despite Bautista's flushing up against .500 while we finish 4th in the division at a time when the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays are all flawed teams.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Online petition time.

 

[Kin]

Maybe it's the fact that the Marlins threw money at anything and everything this offseason but I'm really getting tired of rebuilding for 2023. Baseball prospects have terrible panning out rates and every signing/trade being about option years and contract control is not inspiring me to be a better fan.  Beeston talked about this massive doubling of salary last year, this year, after the season, and then changes his tune in the offseason.  The salary bump was mentioned both as keeping internal players and free agents.

I love how they've basically added the addendum to the whole "Sure we'll spend 120 million dollars...when the fans come out and generate the revenue". Why stop at 120 million dollars then? Why not say they'll spend 500 million so long as they can generate the revenue?

I'm not usually a Richard Griffin fan but he said something like the Jays attitude towards spending money right now is along the lines of a restaurant saying they'll hire a decent cook just as soon as the place is packed.

I really wonder if they're aware that every year that the Jays don't contend results in people tuning them out.

 

[maplesyrup]

I'm frustrated too that Jays aren't spending 85 - 100 mil. I think we need to be there to be in the mix but at the same time, I'm happy we're not throwing gobs of cash out Miami/Anaheim style.

 

[Deebo]

Rosenthal says the Angels TV deal has gone up to 150M a year from 50M a year, with the increase they cover Wilson's and Pujols' average salaries with over 50M to spare.

 

[Kin]

Rosenthal says the Angels TV deal has gone up to 150M a year from 50M a year, with the increase they cover Wilson's and Pujols' average salaries with over 50M to spare.

Rights fees are exploding. A baseball team can offer on average about 500 hours of programming per year that hits a key demographic and isn't likely to be Tivo'd so the commercials won't be skipped. Add in the in-game opportunities for advertising and they're crazy valuable these days. Remember part of the McCourt-Fox kerfuffle was about MLB thinking McCourt getting 150 million a year on average for TV rights was way too low.

 

[Zee]

I'm frustrated too that Jays aren't spending 85 - 100 mil. I think we need to be there to be in the mix but at the same time, I'm happy we're not throwing gobs of cash out Miami/Anaheim style.

Baseball is fundamentally flawed in that small market teams can't compete at all.  When one team can spend over $200M on salary with no issues, how can you possibly compete on a level field with that?  They need a real salary cap in baseball.

 

[Kin]

Baseball is fundamentally flawed in that small market teams can't compete at all.  When one team can spend over $200M on salary with no issues, how can you possibly compete on a level field with that?

Two of the playoff teams this year ranked 25th and 29th in payroll. Be pretty tough to argue that the Devil Rays or Marlins haven't been competitive with low payrolls.

 

[Kin]

I mean, seriously, how smaller clubs compete with bigger clubs in Baseball was the subject of a freakin' Brad Pitt movie this fall. I think we can stop asking the question.

 

[maplesyrup]

Baseball is fundamentally flawed in that small market teams can't compete at all.  When one team can spend over $200M on salary with no issues, how can you possibly compete on a level field with that?  They need a real salary cap in baseball.

I believe neither of the two teams in the WS were in the top 10 in spending last year. I haven't done the research by my feeling is that while spending 85-90 mil. to say, 50-65 mil. gives you a much better chance for success, spending 150 +  as opposed to that 85-90 mil. range doesn't give you a large leg up these days. 

 

[Andy007]

Baseball is fundamentally flawed in that small market teams can't compete at all.  When one team can spend over $200M on salary with no issues, how can you possibly compete on a level field with that?

Two of the playoff teams this year ranked 25th and 29th in payroll. Be pretty tough to argue that the Devil Rays or Marlins haven't been competitive with low payrolls.

That means it's possible, but really, where is the longevity? Minnesota did it for a few years and then nothing. Oakland is a mess. Florida and Tampa are good examples, sure, but even so Tampa making the playoffs last year was a collossal fluke. And they have only sporadically been playoff contenders. So sure there are instances of small market teams excelling and big budgets flaming out, but the window of opportunity is so small, so tight, that really, the advantage of the high budget teams is undeniable.

 

[Zee]

Baseball is fundamentally flawed in that small market teams can't compete at all.  When one team can spend over $200M on salary with no issues, how can you possibly compete on a level field with that?  They need a real salary cap in baseball.

I believe neither of the two teams in the WS were in the top 10 in spending last year. I haven't done the research by my feeling is that while spending 85-90 mil. to say, 50-65 mil. gives you a much better chance for success, spending 150 +  as opposed to that 85-90 mil. range doesn't give you a large leg up these days.

Sure it still comes down to management and player development, finding the right guys to play, and sure smaller market teams can have success if they identify good players when they're young and before they're ready to cash in.  Once a player achieves a certain level of success though, he goes to the open market and the team with the biggest wallet gets him.  Any of the small market teams that have success won't be at the top for the long haul.  The Yankees and Red Sox will.  They may not win every year, but they'll always be in contention cause they can afford to be.

 

[Kin]

That means it's possible, but really, where is the longevity? Minnesota did it for a few years and then nothing. Oakland is a mess. Florida and Tampa are good examples, sure, but even so Tampa making the playoffs last year was a collossal fluke.

Tampa making the playoffs wasn't a colossal fluke. Read "The Extra 2%" or pay attention to anything they do. Just today Tampa announced they'd signed Matt Moore to a deal that controls him for five more years at 14 million or 8 and 40 with options. Tampa's success isn't a fluke, they're successful because they're really 'effin smart and they draft and develop well.

The answer to how small market teams compete has been public knowledge since Michael Lewis wrote Moneyball. It's with brains. The WS winners were middle of the pack in payroll. So were the AL champs. The fact that some teams are only "sporadically competitive" is true of every sport. The bar you're setting for competitive balance, where a team has to be competitive every year with no reloading, doesn't make any sense.

 

[Kin]

From Tom Verducci's column today:

The Marlins were prepared to give Wilson more than $100 million over six years and reportedly dangled $275 million at Pujols. One baseball source said this is a franchise with such uncertainty that it asked free agents to be paid in two pay periods (some players prefer getting their money in only one period, the regular season) so that they could use the late-year revenue-sharing payments from baseball. It's credit card baseball, and with no no-trade clauses allowed.

Verducci's Column

I love that this is what modern sports has become. The Marlins are big spenders so long as they can pay their players with the money they get from other teams.

 

[L K]

From Tom Verducci's column today:

The Marlins were prepared to give Wilson more than $100 million over six years and reportedly dangled $275 million at Pujols. One baseball source said this is a franchise with such uncertainty that it asked free agents to be paid in two pay periods (some players prefer getting their money in only one period, the regular season) so that they could use the late-year revenue-sharing payments from baseball. It's credit card baseball, and with no no-trade clauses allowed.

Verducci's Column

I love that this is what modern sports has become. The Marlins are big spenders so long as they can pay their players with the money they get from other teams.

How do the Marlins qualify for revenue sharing if they would have spent about 80 million dollars on new salaries?  Is the MLB revenue sharing that horribly messed up?

 

[Kin]

How do the Marlins qualify for revenue sharing if they would have spent about 80 million dollars on new salaries?  Is the MLB revenue sharing that horribly messed up?

Seems so.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Just randomly looking up some Jays prospects stats from 2011.  Not meant to make any point.

Gose had 70 steals and was caught stealing only 15 times (still around .250 and K's too much).
Hechavarria batted .389 with .431 OBP in 25 games after moving up to AAA.

That is all.