2011 Blue Jays/MLB Thread

[Kin]

I'm sure it's different for different players, I'm just going by what they say in the article:

That was just a joke.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Good to know, considering I have no idea who that player/person is.

 

[ontariojames]

I think a lot of people have forgotten just how good Litsch can be when he's healthy. Last full season as a starter he was 13-9 with a 3.5 ERA. If he can get back to that form or close to it this season that would give us a huge boost.

 

[Kin]

Good to know, considering I have no idea who that player/person is.

A fat pitcher. My jokes are obscure.

 

[Kin]

I think a lot of people have forgotten just how good Litsch can be when he's healthy. Last full season as a starter he was 13-9 with a 3.5 ERA. If he can get back to that form or close to it this season that would give us a huge boost.

He did that though with a 4.29 FIP and while striking almost nobody out(5 K's/9). Once teams figured him out his inability to miss bats made him basically the prototypical flash in the pan junkballer.

 

[ontariojames]

I think a lot of people have forgotten just how good Litsch can be when he's healthy. Last full season as a starter he was 13-9 with a 3.5 ERA. If he can get back to that form or close to it this season that would give us a huge boost.

He did that though with a 4.29 FIP and while striking nobody almost nobody out(5 K's/9). Once teams figured him out his inability to miss bats made him basically the prototypical flash in the pan junkballer.

I'll take your word for it, I don't pay enough attention to baseball stats to know. Well that sucks, but the rotation still has potential if Cecil and McGowan can get back to where they were before and Morrow can finally put it together, or atleast get down to around a ERA of 4.

 

[Kin]

I'll take your word for it, I don't pay enough attention to baseball stats to know. Well that sucks, but the rotation still has potential if Cecil and McGowan can get back to where they were before and Morrow can finally put it together, or atleast get down to around a ERA of 4.

I wouldn't give up on Litsch just yet. Last year he started striking people out(66 in 75 innings) and despite the so-so ERA it seems as though he got a little unlucky in terms of balls in play. If he can repeat those numbers he might end up at the back end of the rotation. I just think his first two years are a little misleading.

Anyways, as to the general point, I'd be pinning my hopes on Alvarez and Drabek instead of McGowan and Cecil. I think people get a little drawn in by Cecil's 15-7 record from a couple seasons ago and ignore that he was pretty mediocre that year.

 

[ontariojames]

I'll take your word for it, I don't pay enough attention to baseball stats to know. Well that sucks, but the rotation still has potential if Cecil and McGowan can get back to where they were before and Morrow can finally put it together, or atleast get down to around a ERA of 4.

I wouldn't give up on Litsch just yet. Last year he started striking people out(66 in 75 innings) and despite the so-so ERA it seems as though he got a little unlucky in terms of balls in play. If he can repeat those numbers he might end up at the back end of the rotation. I just think his first two years are a little misleading.

Anyways, as to the general point, I'd be pinning my hopes on Alvarez and Drabek instead of McGowan and Cecil. I think people get a little drawn in by Cecil's 15-7 record from a couple seasons ago and ignore that he was pretty mediocre that year.

I didn't mean to suggest that Cecil was great that year, only that it was a good rookie season and that it was significantly better than his last season. So if Cecil can get back to just being a decent back of the rotation starter, that will help.

 

[Andy007]

Anyways, as to the general point, I'd be pinning my hopes on Alvarez and Drabek instead of McGowan and Cecil. I think people get a little drawn in by Cecil's 15-7 record from a couple seasons ago and ignore that he was pretty mediocre that year.

Actually I think some people look to the fact that Cecil performed great against their two toughest division foes, Boston and NY. He had some pretty dominating performances against them.

 

[Kin]

Anyways, as to the general point, I'd be pinning my hopes on Alvarez and Drabek instead of McGowan and Cecil. I think people get a little drawn in by Cecil's 15-7 record from a couple seasons ago and ignore that he was pretty mediocre that year.

Actually I think some people look to the fact that Cecil performed great against their two toughest division foes, Boston and NY. He had some pretty dominating performances against them.

Great is probably a bit of an overstatement. His WHIP's against Boston and New York were 1.446 and 1.366 respectively. If you look at his breakdowns he was much better against bad teams.

 

[Andy007]

Anyways, as to the general point, I'd be pinning my hopes on Alvarez and Drabek instead of McGowan and Cecil. I think people get a little drawn in by Cecil's 15-7 record from a couple seasons ago and ignore that he was pretty mediocre that year.

Actually I think some people look to the fact that Cecil performed great against their two toughest division foes, Boston and NY. He had some pretty dominating performances against them.

Great is probably a bit of an overstatement. His WHIP's against Boston and New York were 1.446 and 1.366 respectively. If you look at his breakdowns he was much better against bad teams.

WHIP criticisms aside he certainly wasn't mediocre and personally I'd classify a 2.60ish era against the Yankees in 30+ innings as 'great.' (not to mention similar numbers in signficant innings against Boston).

 

[Kin]

WHIP criticisms aside he certainly wasn't mediocre and personally I'd classify a 2.60ish era against the Yankees in 30+ innings as 'great.' (not to mention similar numbers in signficant innings against Boston).

Well, first off, it was a 3.86 ERA in 18 innings against Boston which is neither similar to the 2.67 against New York nor is it particularly significant.

But still, there's a lot of bad there. His K/BB ratios against NY and Bos were a pretty lousy 1.43 and 1.50 and K rates of 5.3 and 4.3 add to the picture.

 

[Andy007]

WHIP criticisms aside he certainly wasn't mediocre and personally I'd classify a 2.60ish era against the Yankees in 30+ innings as 'great.' (not to mention similar numbers in signficant innings against Boston).

Well, first off, it was a 3.86 ERA in 18 innings against Boston which is neither similar to the 2.67 against New York nor is it particularly significant.

But still, there's a lot of bad there. His K/BB ratios against NY and Bos were a pretty lousy 1.43 and 1.50 and K rates of 5.3 and 4.3 add to the picture.

Who cares about walks if he's getting guys out? Seriously, that's your comlpaint?

So lets amend for semantics sake- 2.60 against NY is fantastic and 3.80 against Boston is great. Nothing there is mediocre, I guess, except for a couple of extra walks that never amounted to anything.

 

[Kin]

Who cares about walks if he's getting guys out? Seriously, that's your comlpaint?

The issue is sustainable success. If he's giving up a ton of hits and walks and not striking anyone out then to have a low era you're probably getting very lucky on balls in play and that's not sustainable as, indeed, he showed last year.

So lets amend for semantics sake- 2.60 against NY is fantastic and 3.80 against Boston is great. Nothing there is mediocre, I guess, except for a couple of extra walks that never amounted to anything.

A 3.86 ERA against anyone isn't great.

But either way, the original point remains. He didn't really pitch well that year. That he undercut it with numbers against Boston and New York that aren't sustainable doesn't change that.

 

[bustaheims]

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=388668

National League MVP Ryan Braun's 50-game suspension was overturned Thursday by baseball arbitrator Shyam Das, the first time a baseball player successfully challenged a drug-related penalty in a grievance.

 

[L K]

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=388668

National League MVP Ryan Braun's 50-game suspension was overturned Thursday by baseball arbitrator Shyam Das, the first time a baseball player successfully challenged a drug-related penalty in a grievance.

A closed door decision that overturns the ruling that made MLB look bad.  Forgive my skepticism but that doesn't alleviate my feelings of cheating on Braun's part.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I wonder if Braun wasn't a Brewer, you know, with no connections to the commissioner, would he have won the appeal.

 

[bustaheims]

I wonder if Braun wasn't a Brewer, you know, with no connections to the commissioner, would he have won the appeal.

Probably. It was an impartial arbitrator that made the decision and MLB was probably hoping to be able to make an example of him. They were very upset about this decision.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I wonder if Braun wasn't a Brewer, you know, with no connections to the commissioner, would he have won the appeal.

Probably. It was an impartial arbitrator that made the decision and MLB was probably hoping to be able to make an example of him. They were very upset about this decision.

I was trying to say it the opposite way actually..Even though I know the Seligs no longer own the team, I was thinking Selig would put his own pressure on the process, after Fielder left, they needed to keep their popularity going, so he made sure Braun got off. Sentimental reasons for Bud.No proof of course, but, it was the first thing I thought of.

 

[bustaheims]

I was trying to say it the opposite way actually..Even though I know the Seligs no longer own the team, I was thinking Selig would put his own pressure on the process, after Fielder left, they needed to keep their popularity going, so he made sure Braun got off. Sentimental reasons for Bud.No proof of course, but, it was the first thing I thought of.

I knew what you were implying, I just don't think it really holds any water. Braun got off this one because there was legitimately some problems with the way his test was handled by the independent body that conducts the league's drug testing.