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2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

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bustaheims said:
Fine. I'll admit I may have overstated Fehr's history with taking disputes to the courts, but, I still don't consider his record to be fairly good, regardless of games lost. Having had negotiations get to that point so frequently certainly doesn't paint Fehr in the light of "deal maker" as far as I'm concerned.
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Well, putting aside issues of labels or the significance of a work stoppage where nobody misses any paychecks I think it's fair to note that all of Fehr's work stoppages came pre-1996. Once MLB stopped trying to break the union, illegally collude against players or do away with meaningful free agency Baseball was largely labour dispute free.
 
Fire Fehr. The players are about to make a move that I think was part of leagues plan all along. Deceritfy and then they can contract 6 teams. Players in the end will lose a fifth of their members jobs. By taking last offer they win but giving in.
 
Hampreacher said:
Fire Fehr. The players are about to make a move that I think was part of leagues plan all along. Deceritfy and then they can contract 6 teams. Players in the end will lose a fifth of their members jobs. By taking last offer they win but giving in.
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That makes absolutely no sense. The players have no say in contraction, decertified union or not. If the NHL's plan was to contract six teams they could do it regardless.
 
With the Union blowing itself up here, is the advantage to the league now that once that is complete they can say "ok cool... all contracts previously agreed to are null and void.  The league will now open the doors and any player who wants to sign can do so.. oh and the cap is $25 million and no player can make more than 10% of that amount. Na na na boo boo stick your head in doo doo."????

I know there's a long road of legal fun with that and probably a 100% dead season but can this not completely backfire in the face of the players in something similar to the above scenario?
 
Corn Flake said:
I know there's a long road of legal fun with that and probably a 100% dead season but can this not completely backfire in the face of the players in something similar to the above scenario?
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I can certainly backfire on the players, but, the league would likely end up suspending operations until the union reforms in order to protect themselves from potential antitrust issues.
 
Corn Flake said:
With the Union blowing itself up here, is the advantage to the league now that once that is complete they can say "ok cool... all contracts previously agreed to are null and void.  The league will now open the doors and any player who wants to sign can do so.. oh and the cap is $25 million and no player can make more than 10% of that amount. Na na na boo boo stick your head in doo doo."????

I know there's a long road of legal fun with that and probably a 100% dead season but can this not completely backfire in the face of the players in something similar to the above scenario?
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Except that's a pretty blatant anti-trust violation and the potential risk for the owners(damages would be triple the amount of dollars that the league artificially suppressed) would probably negate the possibility of that happening. All it would take is one player suing them on that basis and seeing it through and the league would get hit for hundreds of millions if not billions in damages.
 
I'm of the opinion that these new legal maneuvers are just negotiating tactics, and that none of this legal stuff will really matter. Once the two sides actually sit back down to negotiate again, there will be that much more pressure to get this done. I really believe we get word of a deal before months end. And if we don't, a full season playing on The Marlies will do nothing but benefit the younger Leaf prospects.

Bring on the WJHC. Time to watch hockey and let these guys figure it out or pull the plug. I've become uninterested in reading anymore about this "watching-the-weeds-grow" process. Some real meaningful hockey is being offered up next week, and I'll take it!
 
RedLeaf said:
Bring on the WJHC. Time to watch hockey and let these guys figure it out or pull the plug. I've become uninterested in reading anymore about this "watching-the-weeds-grow" process. Some real meaningful hockey is being offered up next week, and I'll take it!
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Yeah.  The only places I read up or check in on this whole thing is here and what floats by on my twitter feed. (After the last player/owner thing that blew up) I don't go looking for info or really care who spoke to who or what meeting was set up or not.  Who cares.  The disclaimer of interest was sort of interesting only from a "ok what might that mean" kind of way.. other than that, WJC's please and screw you NHL and NHLPA. Call me when you are done and I will let you know if I'm going to invest my time and money on you in future.

 
bustaheims said:
Corn Flake said:
I know there's a long road of legal fun with that and probably a 100% dead season but can this not completely backfire in the face of the players in something similar to the above scenario?
Click to expand...

I can certainly backfire on the players, but, the league would likely end up suspending operations until the union reforms in order to protect themselves from potential antitrust issues.
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Nik V. Debs said:
Corn Flake said:
With the Union blowing itself up here, is the advantage to the league now that once that is complete they can say "ok cool... all contracts previously agreed to are null and void.  The league will now open the doors and any player who wants to sign can do so.. oh and the cap is $25 million and no player can make more than 10% of that amount. Na na na boo boo stick your head in doo doo."????

I know there's a long road of legal fun with that and probably a 100% dead season but can this not completely backfire in the face of the players in something similar to the above scenario?
Click to expand...

Except that's a pretty blatant anti-trust violation and the potential risk for the owners(damages would be triple the amount of dollars that the league artificially suppressed) would probably negate the possibility of that happening. All it would take is one player suing them on that basis and seeing it through and the league would get hit for hundreds of millions if not billions in damages.
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Could the league just not go ahead without a cap then and avoid the antitrust? 

 
Corn Flake said:
Could the league just not go ahead without a cap then and avoid the antitrust?
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There are a number of things that could land them in antitrust related hot water. It's a mine field, and the league is better off avoiding it altogether.
 
Corn Flake said:
Could the league just not go ahead without a cap then and avoid the antitrust?
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Well, two things. First keep in mind that what you're describing, an NHL without collectively bargained restrictions on contracts/payrolls/expenses, is essentially the NHL's worst nightmare so I can't see it happening on that level. Secondly, that'd be just about impossible to work. I mean, the draft could be the basis for a anti-trust lawsuit. Absent a CBA, Nathan Mackinnon could auction himself to the highest bidder.

So, as Busta says, I can't see them touching that with a ten foot pole.
 
bustaheims said:
Rebel_1812 said:
As we all know, I strongly content that bettmen is not a deal maker that works well with others.  The fact that this has to be settled in court proves that point.
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Well, sure, if you ignore the fact that Fehr has a history of taking these disputes to the courts and the fact that both the NBAPA and NFLPA filed lawsuits against their respective leagues as part of their disputes. Going to the courts is just par for the course in sports labour negotiations these days. It says nothing about either sides' lead negotiators other than neither of them could make a deal with each other.
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Those were settled out of court.  Bettman has 3 lockouts, one which lasted an entire season, and a court case with a potential owner.  He needs to be sent to the corner like a kindergarten kid until he learns to play with others.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
Corn Flake said:
With the Union blowing itself up here, is the advantage to the league now that once that is complete they can say "ok cool... all contracts previously agreed to are null and void.  The league will now open the doors and any player who wants to sign can do so.. oh and the cap is $25 million and no player can make more than 10% of that amount. Na na na boo boo stick your head in doo doo."????

I know there's a long road of legal fun with that and probably a 100% dead season but can this not completely backfire in the face of the players in something similar to the above scenario?
Click to expand...

Except that's a pretty blatant anti-trust violation and the potential risk for the owners(damages would be triple the amount of dollars that the league artificially suppressed) would probably negate the possibility of that happening. All it would take is one player suing them on that basis and seeing it through and the league would get hit for hundreds of millions if not billions in damages.
Click to expand...

Although both sides could lose the court case, the owners have alot more to lose.  The worst case outcome for the players is that the lockout is upheld as legal and they had to take a bad deal.  There is no way the players would have to pay damages for bad faith negotiations. They tried to get a deal done with the union, that proved impossible so they tried to get a deal done individually.
 
Received an email from the jets that they are stopping my season ticket payments until further notice, seems to me that the owners now know there will be no season.
 
Only stopping now?  Coyotes stopped in Sept or Oct.  They gave offer of 2% interest on money or 5% Coyotes bucks to be used in stadium on merchandise or concessions.
 
Bates said:
Only stopping now?  Coyotes stopped in Sept or Oct.  They gave offer of 2% interest on money or 5% Coyotes bucks to be used in stadium on merchandise or concessions.
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They gave us the option in sept to stop, if we kept making payments they gave us 2% I think it was, interest on what we paid.
 
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