2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I like Josh Leivo, but it seems pretty laughable to me to suggest he is anywhere close to being as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen, yet that's the narrative being pushed by some of the numbers guys in the Leafs blogosphere this morning.

Leivo may have produced more offense to this point, but he's had more offensive opportunity, he's older and isn't nearly as fast or trusted defensively.

I'd choose Kapanen 99 times out of 100 and I like Leivo.

 

[Zee]

I like Josh Leivo, but it seems pretty laughable to me to suggest he is anywhere close to being as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen, yet that's the narrative being pushed by some of the numbers guys in the Leafs blogosphere this morning.

Leivo may have produced more offense to this point, but he's had more offensive opportunity, he's older and isn't nearly as fast or trusted defensively.

I'd choose Kapanen 99 times out of 100 and I like Leivo.

Kapanen's skating speed is way ahead of Leivo's as well. In today's NHL, a guy like Kapanen can succeed with that speed alone.  Factor in all of Kapanen's other skills and it's no contest really.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I like Josh Leivo, but it seems pretty laughable to me to suggest he is anywhere close to being as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen, yet that's the narrative being pushed by some of the numbers guys in the Leafs blogosphere this morning.

Leivo may have produced more offense to this point, but he's had more offensive opportunity, he's older and isn't nearly as fast or trusted defensively.

I'd choose Kapanen 99 times out of 100 and I like Leivo.

Leivo's hot streak last year really skews his numbers. I'm sure he can be a serviceable NHLer but nothing like we saw in those couple of weeks with Kadri. If it meant keeping Kapanen playing every day even if was just on the 4th line, I'd waive Leivo without much hesitation.

edit: And I think the Leafs really should have traded him last year when his value was a little higher and they were apparently getting calls on him. It was pretty clear he was going to get buried again this season. Having him for depth is nice but we still would have had a lot of other options.

 

[herman]

I like Josh Leivo, but it seems pretty laughable to me to suggest he is anywhere close to being as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen, yet that's the narrative being pushed by some of the numbers guys in the Leafs blogosphere this morning.

Leivo may have produced more offense to this point, but he's had more offensive opportunity, he's older and isn't nearly as fast or trusted defensively.

I'd choose Kapanen 99 times out of 100 and I like Leivo.

Leivo's hot streak last year really skews his numbers. I'm sure he can be a serviceable NHLer but nothing like we saw in those couple of weeks with Kadri. If it meant keeping Kapanen playing every day even if was just on the 4th line, I'd waive Leivo without much hesitation.

Kapanen was kept back because he was too useful in a top-9 role and needed the minutes in the AHL to dominate. He was always too good in junior and lower to play his own age group and was always playing up.

Leivo is a sub to this organization, small sample scoreboard results notwithstanding.

The real problem was and always has been having a player like Martin clogging the roster and forcing it to be played in a certain way. Martin is a serviceable complementary low-event winger, but his playstyle requires his linemates to follow suit, while none of our options play that way.

Moore looks downright revitalized playing with a speedster, and Komarov looks like a completely new player now that he's on his strong side and knows he can give it more juice per shift with fewer minutes. Post deadline, I'd like to see Komarov/Aaltonen - Moore/Aaltonen - Kapanen get a bit of a run on the 4th line. I'd be happy to keep Komarov if Martin was moved, but I'd be very loathe to keep both.

 

[ZBBM]

I like Josh Leivo, but it seems pretty laughable to me to suggest he is anywhere close to being as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen, yet that's the narrative being pushed by some of the numbers guys in the Leafs blogosphere this morning.

Leivo may have produced more offense to this point, but he's had more offensive opportunity, he's older and isn't nearly as fast or trusted defensively.

I'd choose Kapanen 99 times out of 100 and I like Leivo.

Kapanen's skating speed is way ahead of Leivo's as well. In today's NHL, a guy like Kapanen can succeed with that speed alone.  Factor in all of Kapanen's other skills and it's no contest really.

It never was.

Kapanen at least has the potential to be as much of a scorer as Leivo, although who knows.  If Hyman ever got hurt, I think it's not out of the question that you could put Kapanen in his spot and get the same results, maybe even better.

 

[ZBBM]

I like Josh Leivo, but it seems pretty laughable to me to suggest he is anywhere close to being as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen, yet that's the narrative being pushed by some of the numbers guys in the Leafs blogosphere this morning.

Leivo may have produced more offense to this point, but he's had more offensive opportunity, he's older and isn't nearly as fast or trusted defensively.

I'd choose Kapanen 99 times out of 100 and I like Leivo.

Leivo's hot streak last year really skews his numbers. I'm sure he can be a serviceable NHLer but nothing like we saw in those couple of weeks with Kadri. If it meant keeping Kapanen playing every day even if was just on the 4th line, I'd waive Leivo without much hesitation.

Kapanen was kept back because he was too useful in a top-9 role and needed the minutes in the AHL to dominate. He was always too good in junior and lower to play his own age group and was always playing up.

Leivo is a sub to this organization, small sample scoreboard results notwithstanding.

The real problem was and always has been having a player like Martin clogging the roster and forcing it to be played in a certain way. Martin is a serviceable complementary low-event winger, but his playstyle requires his linemates to follow suit, while none of our options play that way.

Moore looks downright revitalized playing with a speedster, and Komarov looks like a completely new player now that he's on his strong side and knows he can give it more juice per shift with fewer minutes. Post deadline, I'd like to see Komarov/Aaltonen - Moore/Aaltonen - Kapanen get a bit of a run on the 4th line. I'd be happy to keep Komarov if Martin was moved, but I'd be very loathe to keep both.

Moore IMO is just about a perfect 4C for this team.

 

[Zee]

I like Josh Leivo, but it seems pretty laughable to me to suggest he is anywhere close to being as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen, yet that's the narrative being pushed by some of the numbers guys in the Leafs blogosphere this morning.

Leivo may have produced more offense to this point, but he's had more offensive opportunity, he's older and isn't nearly as fast or trusted defensively.

I'd choose Kapanen 99 times out of 100 and I like Leivo.

Leivo's hot streak last year really skews his numbers. I'm sure he can be a serviceable NHLer but nothing like we saw in those couple of weeks with Kadri. If it meant keeping Kapanen playing every day even if was just on the 4th line, I'd waive Leivo without much hesitation.

Kapanen was kept back because he was too useful in a top-9 role and needed the minutes in the AHL to dominate. He was always too good in junior and lower to play his own age group and was always playing up.

Leivo is a sub to this organization, small sample scoreboard results notwithstanding.

The real problem was and always has been having a player like Martin clogging the roster and forcing it to be played in a certain way. Martin is a serviceable complementary low-event winger, but his playstyle requires his linemates to follow suit, while none of our options play that way.

Moore looks downright revitalized playing with a speedster, and Komarov looks like a completely new player now that he's on his strong side and knows he can give it more juice per shift with fewer minutes. Post deadline, I'd like to see Komarov/Aaltonen - Moore/Aaltonen - Kapanen get a bit of a run on the 4th line. I'd be happy to keep Komarov if Martin was moved, but I'd be very loathe to keep both.

Moore IMO is just about a perfect 4C for this team.

Yeah I don't understand why Babcock doesn't seem to like or trust Moore.  He's fast, he's defensively responsible, decent at faceoffs.  What do you want from your 4th line center?

 

[herman]

Moore IMO is just about a perfect 4C for this team.

Yeah I don't understand why Babcock doesn't seem to like or trust Moore.  He's fast, he's defensively responsible, decent at faceoffs.  What do you want from your 4th line center?

Basically, he wasn't Boyle enough to drag Martin into usefulness. Moore really likes the bounce pass off the boards, and with Kapanen, he actually has someone to bump to.

 

[cabber24]

https://twitter.com/LeafsPR/status/959158979866845184

Whazzat?

"long-term injury conditioning loan" That's a thing? HAHAHA Rules don't apply to our Leafs.

 

[cabber24]

The Leafs continue to prove that Babcock hurt the team with his boneheaded lineup decisions.

Let?s see if he has the fortitude to keep Polak and Martin out of the lineup and Komarov away from the top 9 for good.

I don't agree. Like Reilly last year, Babcock went all-in focus on defense, absolutely compressing offense to improve team defense. Now the learning period has past and it's time to ice an offensive lineup who can NOW play a better two way game.

 

[Hobbes]

Kapanen at least has the potential to be as much of a scorer as Leivo, although who knows.  If Hyman ever got hurt, I think it's not out of the question that you could put Kapanen in his spot and get the same results, maybe even better.

The more I think about it the more intriguing this is. Hyman is a beast on the forecheck...fast and relentless. Kapanen has shown in these last few games that he's just as relentless and maybe even faster. That would *really* back off the opposition D. He also has a not-bad shot, although in fairness Hyman had horrible puck luck last year and is doing much better this year in burying some of those chances.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/959539335824596992

Get on this.

 

[herman]

Kapanen at least has the potential to be as much of a scorer as Leivo, although who knows.  If Hyman ever got hurt, I think it's not out of the question that you could put Kapanen in his spot and get the same results, maybe even better.

The more I think about it the more intriguing this is. Hyman is a beast on the forecheck...fast and relentless. Kapanen has shown in these last few games that he's just as relentless and maybe even faster. That would *really* back off the opposition D. He also has a not-bad shot, although in fairness Hyman had horrible puck luck last year and is doing much better this year in burying some of those chances.

Three of Hyman?s most beautiful NHL goals are against Lundqvist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z-xdP8dLHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrCHPDgO5Pc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXEh81wwIXY

 

[hockeyfan1]

Refreshing and captivating...the Leafs depth of youth & speed...from the AHL's best...

[tweet]959553814310383616[/tweet]

 

[Strangelove]

The Leafs continue to prove that Babcock hurt the team with his boneheaded lineup decisions.

Let?s see if he has the fortitude to keep Polak and Martin out of the lineup and Komarov away from the top 9 for good.

I don't agree. Like Reilly last year, Babcock went all-in focus on defense, absolutely compressing offense to improve team defense. Now the learning period has past and it's time to ice an offensive lineup who can NOW play a better two way game.

I'm not sure how playing bad players like Polak and Martin helped the team develop its two-way game.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The Leafs continue to prove that Babcock hurt the team with his boneheaded lineup decisions.

Let?s see if he has the fortitude to keep Polak and Martin out of the lineup and Komarov away from the top 9 for good.

I don't agree. Like Reilly last year, Babcock went all-in focus on defense, absolutely compressing offense to improve team defense. Now the learning period has past and it's time to ice an offensive lineup who can NOW play a better two way game.

I'm not sure how playing bad players like Polak and Martin helped the team develop its two-way game.

Oh, but it did...in a bad way. 

 

[cabber24]

The Leafs continue to prove that Babcock hurt the team with his boneheaded lineup decisions.

Let?s see if he has the fortitude to keep Polak and Martin out of the lineup and Komarov away from the top 9 for good.

I don't agree. Like Reilly last year, Babcock went all-in focus on defense, absolutely compressing offense to improve team defense. Now the learning period has past and it's time to ice an offensive lineup who can NOW play a better two way game.

I'm not sure how playing bad players like Polak and Martin helped the team develop its two-way game.

Oh, but it did...in a bad way. 

On paper they're supposed to be defensive role players versus Kappi and Dermott being considered more as offensive players. The line combos and lineup choices lead me to believe Babcock was focusing on team defense.

 

[Strangelove]

The Leafs continue to prove that Babcock hurt the team with his boneheaded lineup decisions.

Let?s see if he has the fortitude to keep Polak and Martin out of the lineup and Komarov away from the top 9 for good.

Polak is the one I'm most concerned about the team not sticking, as it was forced on Babcock rather than it being his choice.

Me too. With all the young talent they have at the back end, he?d have to be crazy to make room for Polak. Yet that?s exactly what I expect him to do.

For the record, the Leafs are 14-14 with Polak in the lineup and 16-4 (!) without him in the lineup.

With those facts, it should be enough to sway Babcock and dissuade him from re-instating Polak in the lineup.

You need to dig deeper though and get the Babcock stats of RealGudPro% and RealGudHumanBean% both of which Polak is off the charts real gud.

According to Babcock, this is the correct answer.

 

[Arn]

https://twitter.com/jonassiegel/status/960550972626952192

Just when they were beginning to draw me back in.....

 

[Chris]

RealGudPro versus RealGudPowerPlay, which will come out on top...In any case, most likely Polak will be in the box for at least one Anaheim power play.