2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[herman]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/971442583598764033

Hainsey hates talking to reporters, but I love it when he does.

 

[TML fan]

I'm just gonna beat the "should have traded JVR" horse one more time, but I think it's pretty telling that he can't get off that Bozak line even with the injuries.

I mean get annoyed about not trading JVR all you want, but what does Matthews' injury have to do with his spot in the line-up? Him, Hyman, and Marleau have their spots essentially cemented. There's no point swapping them around now.

There's every point. You should want your better players to play more in the absence of your best players. I get why Hyman is where he is when Matthews is healthy, but not now.

 

[Strangelove]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/971442583598764033

Hainsey hates talking to reporters, but I love it when he does.

Except the bigger question is why Hainsey was blindly wiring it up the boards when Rielly was standing directly beside the ref wide open. That's actually a play that requires some discussion, I would have thought.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

There's every point. You should want your better players to play more in the absence of your best players. I get why Hyman is where he is when Matthews is healthy, but not now.

Well JVR is playing more in Matthews' absence. Prior to the injury JVR was averaging 14:37 per game. In the 10 games immediately before the injury JVR was averaging 14:20. In the 5 games since the injury he's averaging 16:16.

 

[herman]

There's every point. You should want your better players to play more in the absence of your best players. I get why Hyman is where he is when Matthews is healthy, but not now.

Well JVR is playing more in Matthews' absence. Prior to the injury JVR was averaging 14:37 per game. In the 10 games immediately before the injury JVR was averaging 14:20. In the 5 games since the injury he's averaging 16:16.

That might be a function of us chasing the score more during this stretch.

 

[Crucialness Key]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/971442583598764033

Hainsey hates talking to reporters, but I love it when he does.

Except the bigger question is why Hainsey was blindly wiring it up the boards when Rielly was standing directly beside the ref wide open. That's actually a play that requires some discussion, I would have thought.

The way it seemed to unfold to me:

(1) Hainsey sees the ref against the boards, and a clear pass to Morgan along the ice.
(2) The ref sees Hainsey about to pass and assumes he'll go along the boards.
(3) Hainsey decides to pass AWAY from the boards at the EXACT SAME TIME that the ref decides to leave the boards to not obstruct the "ring-around-the-boards" pass
(4) Aaaaand so the pass hits the ref.  Just bad luck, it was that kind of game.

 

[Frank E]

There's every point. You should want your better players to play more in the absence of your best players. I get why Hyman is where he is when Matthews is healthy, but not now.

Well JVR is playing more in Matthews' absence. Prior to the injury JVR was averaging 14:37 per game. In the 10 games immediately before the injury JVR was averaging 14:20. In the 5 games since the injury he's averaging 16:16.

That might be a function of us chasing the score more during this stretch.

I think that's probably exactly it.

 

[herman]

Except the bigger question is why Hainsey was blindly wiring it up the boards when Rielly was standing directly beside the ref wide open. That's actually a play that requires some discussion, I would have thought.

The way it seemed to unfold to me:

(1) Hainsey sees the ref against the boards, and a clear pass to Morgan along the ice.
(2) The ref sees Hainsey about to pass and assumes he'll go along the boards.
(3) Hainsey decides to pass AWAY from the boards at the EXACT SAME TIME that the ref decides to leave the boards to not obstruct the "ring-around-the-boards" pass
(4) Aaaaand so the pass hits the ref.  Just bad luck, it was that kind of game.

I am of the coaching philosophy that you really only have to tell a player something in-game if you know he or she doesn't know what they're doing wrong. And in those cases, I'd be more inclined to tell them what to do differently next time, rather than what they did wrong. In this case, there isn't anything to say for an in-game discussion, other than maybe, 'try hitting the ref in a softer spot to deaden the pass for Mo'.

 

[Frank E]

So, I'm reading that it's looking like the Leafs will establish a ECHL affiliate on The Rock.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2018/3/7/17091900/maple-leafs-affiliate-st-johns-echl-team-is-out-of-limbo-and-about-to-be-a-reality

In that article, it is suggested that the Leafs will have some say, like the coach and some personnel (like they do today with Orlando), and that they want to use the affiliate as a step in the development of some players...I heard that last one before.

So I looked at the roster of the current Solar Bears:

http://orlandosolarbearshockey.com/team/roster/

Is Dzierkals and Piccinich the only Leaf draft picks on that team?

 

[herman]

So I looked at the roster of the current Solar Bears:

http://orlandosolarbearshockey.com/team/roster/

Is Dzierkals and Piccinich the only Leaf draft picks on that team?

The players you've identified are correct. That grammar ain't right though.

 

[herman]

So, I'm reading that it's looking like the Leafs will establish a ECHL affiliate on The Rock.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2018/3/7/17091900/maple-leafs-affiliate-st-johns-echl-team-is-out-of-limbo-and-about-to-be-a-reality

In that article, it is suggested that the Leafs will have some say, like the coach and some personnel (like they do today with Orlando), and that they want to use the affiliate as a step in the development of some players...I heard that last one before.

This is so Dubas.

It appears things may be different with this new team:

The Leafs plan to use St. John?s as an entry point into their system, not only for players but for coaches and support staff (therapists, equipment managers).

 

[Strangelove]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/971442583598764033

Hainsey hates talking to reporters, but I love it when he does.

Except the bigger question is why Hainsey was blindly wiring it up the boards when Rielly was standing directly beside the ref wide open. That's actually a play that requires some discussion, I would have thought.

The way it seemed to unfold to me:

(1) Hainsey sees the ref against the boards, and a clear pass to Morgan along the ice.
(2) The ref sees Hainsey about to pass and assumes he'll go along the boards.
(3) Hainsey decides to pass AWAY from the boards at the EXACT SAME TIME that the ref decides to leave the boards to not obstruct the "ring-around-the-boards" pass
(4) Aaaaand so the pass hits the ref.  Just bad luck, it was that kind of game.

I would agree with you if Hainsey had actually intended to pass to Rielly. But that wasn't a pass. Unless I'm totally misremembering, it was an intended dump-out more than a foot off the ice.

If he been making a short pass as he should have been, the goal would not have happened.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Except the bigger question is why Hainsey was blindly wiring it up the boards when Rielly was standing directly beside the ref wide open. That's actually a play that requires some discussion, I would have thought.

The way it seemed to unfold to me:

(1) Hainsey sees the ref against the boards, and a clear pass to Morgan along the ice.
(2) The ref sees Hainsey about to pass and assumes he'll go along the boards.
(3) Hainsey decides to pass AWAY from the boards at the EXACT SAME TIME that the ref decides to leave the boards to not obstruct the "ring-around-the-boards" pass
(4) Aaaaand so the pass hits the ref.  Just bad luck, it was that kind of game.

I am of the coaching philosophy that you really only have to tell a player something in-game if you know he or she doesn't know what they're doing wrong. And in those cases, I'd be more inclined to tell them what to do differently next time, rather than what they did wrong. In this case, there isn't anything to say for an in-game discussion, other than maybe, 'try hitting the ref in a softer spot to deaden the pass for Mo'.

Exactly and Hainsey is saying exactly that. There's no need to tell me not to hit the ref. I'm a bonehead and should of known better.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Except the bigger question is why Hainsey was blindly wiring it up the boards when Rielly was standing directly beside the ref wide open. That's actually a play that requires some discussion, I would have thought.

The way it seemed to unfold to me:

(1) Hainsey sees the ref against the boards, and a clear pass to Morgan along the ice.
(2) The ref sees Hainsey about to pass and assumes he'll go along the boards.
(3) Hainsey decides to pass AWAY from the boards at the EXACT SAME TIME that the ref decides to leave the boards to not obstruct the "ring-around-the-boards" pass
(4) Aaaaand so the pass hits the ref.  Just bad luck, it was that kind of game.

I am of the coaching philosophy that you really only have to tell a player something in-game if you know he or she doesn't know what they're doing wrong. And in those cases, I'd be more inclined to tell them what to do differently next time, rather than what they did wrong. In this case, there isn't anything to say for an in-game discussion, other than maybe, 'try hitting the ref in a softer spot to deaden the pass for Mo'.

Exactly and Hainsey is saying exactly that. There's no need to tell me not to hit the ref. I'm a bonehead and should of known better.

It chalks up to poor mental clarity, decision-making on the fly, alertness, etc.

Call it what we will.  In the end, it's called playing poorly.  That sums up pretty well Hainsey and the Leafs night.

 

[L K]

Except the bigger question is why Hainsey was blindly wiring it up the boards when Rielly was standing directly beside the ref wide open. That's actually a play that requires some discussion, I would have thought.

The way it seemed to unfold to me:

(1) Hainsey sees the ref against the boards, and a clear pass to Morgan along the ice.
(2) The ref sees Hainsey about to pass and assumes he'll go along the boards.
(3) Hainsey decides to pass AWAY from the boards at the EXACT SAME TIME that the ref decides to leave the boards to not obstruct the "ring-around-the-boards" pass
(4) Aaaaand so the pass hits the ref.  Just bad luck, it was that kind of game.

I am of the coaching philosophy that you really only have to tell a player something in-game if you know he or she doesn't know what they're doing wrong. And in those cases, I'd be more inclined to tell them what to do differently next time, rather than what they did wrong. In this case, there isn't anything to say for an in-game discussion, other than maybe, 'try hitting the ref in a softer spot to deaden the pass for Mo'.

Exactly and Hainsey is saying exactly that. There's no need to tell me not to hit the ref. I'm a bonehead and should of known better.

I think there is a good argument to suggest that Hainsey's default decision of fire the puck out of the zone is a problem though.  Hainsey, Polak, and far too often Zaitsev do this.  They have a guy they could make a pass to but instead fire the puck along the boards to try and clear it.  At best it is a turnover to the opposition in the neutral zone, and at worst it gets stopped at the blueline and its a change of possession in the defensive zone.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Except the bigger question is why Hainsey was blindly wiring it up the boards when Rielly was standing directly beside the ref wide open. That's actually a play that requires some discussion, I would have thought.

The way it seemed to unfold to me:

(1) Hainsey sees the ref against the boards, and a clear pass to Morgan along the ice.
(2) The ref sees Hainsey about to pass and assumes he'll go along the boards.
(3) Hainsey decides to pass AWAY from the boards at the EXACT SAME TIME that the ref decides to leave the boards to not obstruct the "ring-around-the-boards" pass
(4) Aaaaand so the pass hits the ref.  Just bad luck, it was that kind of game.

I am of the coaching philosophy that you really only have to tell a player something in-game if you know he or she doesn't know what they're doing wrong. And in those cases, I'd be more inclined to tell them what to do differently next time, rather than what they did wrong. In this case, there isn't anything to say for an in-game discussion, other than maybe, 'try hitting the ref in a softer spot to deaden the pass for Mo'.

Exactly and Hainsey is saying exactly that. There's no need to tell me not to hit the ref. I'm a bonehead and should of known better.

I think there is a good argument to suggest that Hainsey's default decision of fire the puck out of the zone is a problem though.  Hainsey, Polak, and far too often Zaitsev do this.  They have a guy they could make a pass to but instead fire the puck along the boards to try and clear it.  At best it is a turnover to the opposition in the neutral zone, and at worst it gets stopped at the blueline and its a change of possession in the defensive zone.

The coach has a good handle of when he needs to address a mistake or not. Myself as an coach of Atom AA girls knows this. I'm sure Babcock does as well.

 

[ZBBM]

So I looked at the roster of the current Solar Bears:

http://orlandosolarbearshockey.com/team/roster/

Is Dzierkals and Piccinich the only Leaf draft picks on that team?

The players you've identified are correct. That grammar ain't right though.

Not true.  Frank was engaging in a rhetorical device known as an "implied ellipsis," which means that you?if you only had offered your full attentiveness as a reader/listener?should have been able to discern his subconscious utterance by filling in the following omitted words:

"Is [the duo of] Dzierkals and Piccinich [equivalent to the unique set of human individuals that constitutes both severally and in its entirety] the only Leaf draft picks on that team?"

It's all so obvious.  Try to get with the program, man.

 

[herman]

I think there is a good argument to suggest that Hainsey's default decision of fire the puck out of the zone is a problem though.  Hainsey, Polak, and far too often Zaitsev do this.  They have a guy they could make a pass to but instead fire the puck along the boards to try and clear it.  At best it is a turnover to the opposition in the neutral zone, and at worst it gets stopped at the blueline and its a change of possession in the defensive zone.

I've been thinking about this all year but haven't gotten down to the nitty gritty of the data/video. Is it weird that our entire right side plays the same style (to varying degrees of success) while the left plays their own same style?

My theory is that the right side defender's priority is to be the engager/cycle breaker and either get the puck to his support partner for the breakout skate/pass, or glass it out. Hence Zaitsev always chipping by default, Polak always icing it, and Hainsey never really skating with it. There's an advantage when the defense needs to be shuffled, everyone is still doing the same thing they did before (plug and play); the disadvantage is that when other teams notice (and I'm sure they have), it's pretty easy to line up against a one-sided attack plan.

This doesn't absolve Hainsey of his poor decision to make that heavy 'pass' that accidentally gets kicked to O'Rielly, but from a coaching perspective, there is nothing to be gained from reaming him out on the bench over something he knows he flubbed, which is the point OldTimeHockey and Hainsey are referring to. From the brief glimpses I'm afforded through the tv, coaching from the bench is more gameflow decision making and keeping your players spirits up; anything negative is saved for the refs or the dressing room. The conversation to cover tactical adjustments should take place during practice/video sessions, not on the bench.

 

[Frank E]

So I looked at the roster of the current Solar Bears:

http://orlandosolarbearshockey.com/team/roster/

Is Dzierkals and Piccinich the only Leaf draft picks on that team?

The players you've identified are correct. That grammar ain't right though.

Not true.  Frank was engaging in a rhetorical device known as an "implied ellipsis," which means that you?if you only had offered your full attentiveness as a reader/listener?should have been able to discern his subconscious utterance by filling in the following omitted words:

"Is [the duo of] Dzierkals and Piccinich [equivalent to the unique set of human individuals that constitutes both severally and in its entirety] the only Leaf draft picks on that team?"

It's all so obvious.  Try to get with the program, man.

This, or, I remembered that Piccinich was a draft pick, and added him to my post without fixing the "Is"....or your explanation.

 

[Bullfrog]

I think there is a good argument to suggest that Hainsey's default decision of fire the puck out of the zone is a problem though.  Hainsey, Polak, and far too often Zaitsev do this.  They have a guy they could make a pass to but instead fire the puck along the boards to try and clear it.  At best it is a turnover to the opposition in the neutral zone, and at worst it gets stopped at the blueline and its a change of possession in the defensive zone.

The impact of the crappier players on our team got me to thinking about a recent Malcolm Gladwell podcast I listened to, entitled "My Little Hundred Million." In it, he discusses the theories of Anderson Sally (http://andersonsally.com) who've done analysis to show that in soccer, it's almost always best to invest in improving the quality of the lower players than it is in getting superstars. On the opposite, in basketball it's almost always best to invest in getting the best superstar possible.

I'm a big advocate of going after Tavares hard, but I'm wondering if improving the lower ranks is better value? Where does the NHL fit in on the soccer-basketball spectrum. In both soccer and basketball, there's few line/personnel changes, but in hockey, there's obviously frequent changes. At best, your best defensemen play just over a third of the game; in basketball, your best player plays 3/4 or more of the game.