2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Highlander]

Babcock got fired for the team result, but Keefe didn't really get any more out of them.

Keefe took a team that had .478 winning percentage (25th in the league) and a 48.76 xGF% (21st in the league) and got a 0.628 winning percentage (8th in the league) and a 52.73 xGF% (5th in the league) out of them but yeah I guess that's the same.

A .552 in 2020, and another bounce out in the "first round".

I hope you were expecting more.

A game 5 bounce out, really Frank, yes it didn't go our way but Keefe needs his own training camp and a full year behind the bench. And a few new D men wouldn't hurt either, but to base anything on a bizarre start up to a bastardized season is a little much.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Babcock got fired for the team result, but Keefe didn't really get any more out of them.

Keefe took a team that had .478 winning percentage (25th in the league) and a 48.76 xGF% (21st in the league) and got a 0.628 winning percentage (8th in the league) and a 52.73 xGF% (5th in the league) out of them but yeah I guess that's the same.

A .552 in 2020, and another bounce out in the "first round".

I hope you were expecting more.

A game 5 bounce out, really Frank, yes it didn't go our way but Keefe needs his own training camp and a full year behind the bench. And a few new D men wouldn't hurt either, but to base anything on a bizarre start up to a bastardized season is a little much.

I also like how Keefe's, The Honeymoon Period, somehow doesn't count. Let's go from the start of 2020 and exclude when he actually took the team over. Ridiculous argument.

 

[dappleganger]

Babcock got fired for the team result, but Keefe didn't really get any more out of them.

Keefe took a team that had .478 winning percentage (25th in the league) and a 48.76 xGF% (21st in the league) and got a 0.628 winning percentage (8th in the league) and a 52.73 xGF% (5th in the league) out of them but yeah I guess that's the same.

A .552 in 2020, and another bounce out in the "first round".

I hope you were expecting more.

A game 5 bounce out, really Frank, yes it didn't go our way but Keefe needs his own training camp and a full year behind the bench. And a few new D men wouldn't hurt either, but to base anything on a bizarre start up to a bastardized season is a little much.

I also like how Keefe's, The Honeymoon Period, somehow doesn't count. Let's go from the start of 2020 and exclude when he actually took the team over. Ridiculous argument.

I'd love to see the job Keefe does without Barrie and Ceci patrolling the blue line.

 

[Highlander]

The honeymoon period lasts one year, not up as yet.

 

[ZBBM]

Babcock got fired for the team result, but Keefe didn't really get any more out of them.

Keefe took a team that had .478 winning percentage (25th in the league) and a 48.76 xGF% (21st in the league) and got a 0.628 winning percentage (8th in the league) and a 52.73 xGF% (5th in the league) out of them but yeah I guess that's the same.

A .552 in 2020, and another bounce out in the "first round".

I hope you were expecting more.

A game 5 bounce out, really Frank, yes it didn't go our way but Keefe needs his own training camp and a full year behind the bench. And a few new D men wouldn't hurt either, but to base anything on a bizarre start up to a bastardized season is a little much.

I also like how Keefe's, The Honeymoon Period, somehow doesn't count. Let's go from the start of 2020 and exclude when he actually took the team over. Ridiculous argument.

I'd love to see the job Keefe does without Barrie and Ceci patrolling the blue line.

?  He put them there.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Babcock got fired for the team result, but Keefe didn't really get any more out of them.

Keefe took a team that had .478 winning percentage (25th in the league) and a 48.76 xGF% (21st in the league) and got a 0.628 winning percentage (8th in the league) and a 52.73 xGF% (5th in the league) out of them but yeah I guess that's the same.

A .552 in 2020, and another bounce out in the "first round".

I hope you were expecting more.

A game 5 bounce out, really Frank, yes it didn't go our way but Keefe needs his own training camp and a full year behind the bench. And a few new D men wouldn't hurt either, but to base anything on a bizarre start up to a bastardized season is a little much.

I also like how Keefe's, The Honeymoon Period, somehow doesn't count. Let's go from the start of 2020 and exclude when he actually took the team over. Ridiculous argument.

I'd love to see the job Keefe does without Barrie and Ceci patrolling the blue line.

I actually think if CC was in Marincin's position and Barrie was our 3rd right D and playing where they belonged, both would be fine. Problem is we are so weak on our top pairing right side that everyone is playing too high in the line up. Get that #1 pairing RD and everyone moves down a slot and they'd be a lot better. Barrie isn't a 20+ min D man. He's a 2nd pp guy that should play on the 3rd pairing. Someone will probably overpay him. 

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/TheOakLeafs/status/1309183293666009092
What's the best online resource to run the hockey stats through advanced filters? Because I'm curious which players are higher up on this list (Matthews, Tavares, probably Marner in total points)...

Babcock keeping Nylander off PP1 for so long probably saved us a million AAV.

 

[bustaheims]

What's the best online resource to run the hockey stats through advanced filters? Because I'm curious which players are higher up on this list (Matthews, Tavares, probably Marner in total points)...

Best I can do is the team's last 82 games, not the player's...

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20182019&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=n&team=ALL&pos=S&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=gpteam&fd=&td=&tgp=82&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

 

[Frank E]

What's the best online resource to run the hockey stats through advanced filters? Because I'm curious which players are higher up on this list (Matthews, Tavares, probably Marner in total points)...

Best I can do is the team's last 82 games, not the player's...

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20182019&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=n&team=ALL&pos=S&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=gpteam&fd=&td=&tgp=82&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

Some surprises, at least to me anyways, that are high on that list.

Huberdeau, Ehlers, and JT Miller, to name 3...

 

[herman]

Philip Danault might be available

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Some surprises, at least to me anyways, that are high on that list.

Huberdeau, Ehlers, and JT Miller, to name 3...

Huberdeau is 9th in the league in points over the past 2 seasons. I don't think many people would have guessed that.

 

[bustaheims]

Some surprises, at least to me anyways, that are high on that list.

Huberdeau, Ehlers, and JT Miller, to name 3...

Huberdeau is 9th in the league in points over the past 2 seasons. I don't think many people would have guessed that.

HUBERDEAU!!!

Also, Miller had a monster year this season - 72 points in 69 games. I'm not sure he keeps that up, but it definitely explains why he's so high on the list. As for Ehlers' - his points this past season (and for most of his career, really) came almost entirely at even strength, and he doesn't get a ton of PP time, which would explain why his 5-on-5 totals are strong, but his overall totals don't particularly stand out.

 

[princedpw]

I kinda wonder what would happen if the leafs put Tavares, Matthews and Mariner on three separate lines with the idea they could each carry a line and elevate their team mates. Or maybe, as some board members would suggest, we let Nylander carry Marner. eg:

Kerfoot - Matthews - Hyman
Robertson - Tavares - Mikheyev
Engvall - Nylander - Marner

Maybe Johnsson is in there if he isn?t traded.

And then you just don?t really worry about the 4th line except as a place to carry some P.K. folks.

And of course you throw out a power line every now and then too.

 

[herman]

I kinda wonder what would happen if the leafs put Tavares, Matthews and Mariner on three separate lines with the idea they could each carry a line and elevate their team mates. Or maybe, as some board members would suggest, we let Nylander carry Marner.

I dig it, but it really depends on the wingers in question. Do we partially neuter all the superstars creation capabilities for greater depth, or do we stack them and aim to overmatch their opposing lines beyond their ability to cope and net gains there? With our cheapo wingers, I have a hard time seeing it work consistently. Tavares could elevate his wingers but that required a lot of ice time, and some of them were actually quite decent.

I don't believe Marner can 'drive' his own line, but I do believe he is very good at maximizing a shooting centre and has the engine to play way more minutes. Nylander can drive a line from 3C handily if at least one of them can complete passes. Johnsson, if still around, and uninjured and back to form would be a pretty big boost.

I would juggle it a bit if Keefe wanted to spread things out.
Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Engvall
Robertson - Nylander - Mikheyev

But is that or the other spread out option really better than
Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Mikheyev - Tavares - Nylander
Robertson - Kerfoot - Engvall

Especially if Nylander with top-6 minutes can net more goals for him and his centre?

 

[princedpw]

I kinda wonder what would happen if the leafs put Tavares, Matthews and Mariner on three separate lines with the idea they could each carry a line and elevate their team mates. Or maybe, as some board members would suggest, we let Nylander carry Marner.

I dig it, but it really depends on the wingers in question. Do we partially neuter all the superstars creation capabilities for greater depth, or do we stack them and aim to overmatch their opposing lines beyond their ability to cope and net gains there? With our cheapo wingers, I have a hard time seeing it work consistently. Tavares could elevate his wingers but that required a lot of ice time, and some of them were actually quite decent.

I don't believe Marner can 'drive' his own line, but I do believe he is very good at maximizing a shooting centre and has the engine to play way more minutes. Nylander can drive a line from 3C handily if at least one of them can complete passes. Johnsson, if still around, and uninjured and back to form would be a pretty big boost.

I would juggle it a bit if Keefe wanted to spread things out.
Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Engvall
Robertson - Nylander - Mikheyev

But is that or the other spread out option really better than
Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Mikheyev - Tavares - Nylander
Robertson - Kerfoot - Engvall

Especially if Nylander with top-6 minutes can net more goals for him and his centre?

I was assuming that Nylander was the shooting center that Marner was elevating.

 

[herman]

I was assuming that Nylander was the shooting center that Marner was elevating.

Natch. Marner and Nylander have a lot of overlap, in result even though the method is slightly different. There?s probably more value in having Marner feed a 17% shooter 20+ min a night than to elevate Nylander on third line minutes. And I like the right shot/left shot pairings.

I liked how Babcock set up lines where the right shot winger was the transition and playmaker for a left shooting centre, while the opposite wing was just there to be the first guy on the forecheck to knock pucks loose.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/pierrevlebrun/status/1310569725987086343

 

[Guilt Trip]

Leafs won't be qualifying him. I can see a contract of 1.25 to 1.5 max for him. He's not getting 2 on the open market, not this year.

 

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/2018962/2020/09/28/the-case-for-and-against-the-maple-leafs-trading-william-nylander/
Jonas Siegel worked a long time on this, as probably one of the more vocal supporters of Willy in MSM.

One of the more curious things about Nylander is that despite the apparent lack of passion, few seem to love the game as much. Nylander is almost always among the last to leave the ice following practice. Long after the regulars have gone, Nylander can be seen fine-tuning his shot and working on his handle.

?He loves the game,? Jason Spezza said glowingly at one point last season.

Nylander?s wavering engagement level means something but not enough to overwhelm what makes him special.

He may be more skilled than anyone on the Leafs, including Matthews and Marner. He?s got a gift for slowing up in transition and scanning the ice for scoring opportunities like the Terminator. He?s probably underrated as a passer, hanging around the league?s top 25 forwards in 5-on-5 assists per 60 minutes over his first four NHL seasons. He?s also got a knack for thievery, putting his strong frame to work in lifting sticks to swipe pucks. His wrist shot is elite: Only Matthews (28), Jack Eichel (27), Sebastian Aho (24), Kyle Connor (23), Nathan MacKinnon (23) and Connor McDavid (22) had more such goals this past season than Nylander, who had the same 21 as reigning MVP Nikita Kucherov and Max Pacioretty.

Nylander ranked 17th among all NHL forwards last season in expected goals above replacement, a catch-all stat measuring value. (Matthews was No. 1.) Forty-five forwards (so far) will boast a larger cap hit next season. Nylander projects to be underpaid moving forward.

 

[WAYNEINIONA]

I think he's a keeper.