2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Kin]

Hey what about Chara for the Bogo role? How were his numbers in Washington?

I think they were pretty bad and he played sheltered minutes. There are better options but we'd get our own crosschecker!

Sure but the Bogo role is sort of "happy to be a 3rd pairing guy, not a tragedy if he gets supplanted by Sandin or Liljegren at some point" so sheltered minutes seems like it comes with the job.

 

[caver]

Montreal: still sucks but still managed to beat the Leafs and make it to the finals. Losing Danault might be a biggie for them, though.

Toronto: Lost heart and soul 20+ goal scorer Zach Hyman, replaced with...Michael Bunting? Goaltending probably a wash.

Feels like if you're going to bring up the playoffs loss as particularly relevant it's important to note Montreal probably won't have Weber while the Leafs will have Tavares in all likelihood. That seems more important than, say, Hyman's heart and souling all of one goal in 7 games.

The heart and soul guy with 5 goals in 32 playoff games and 5 points in 19 games over the last three seasons.  This playoff series against Montreal really left me looking at Hyman quite confused.  Danault was glued to Matthews.  The rest of the Canadiens were shading Marner to take away his passing opportunities.  Hyman wasn't generating space for Matthews/Marner...he was the one getting it and did nothing with those opportunities.

He's still a good player that we lost but the team isn't necessarily worse off in the long-run...especially at this cap hit.  I'm still worried about the lack of depth scoring with this lineup.

An interesting discussion is whether Rielly is something that becomes a mid-season trade.  I'd be really wary of trading him right now given the lack of anything to replace him with but Campbell needs a new contract next year so unless he stinks the bed its going to be hard to find money to give Rielly more money. If Sandin (and Liljegren) establish themselves as mainstay fixtures...do the Leafs consider doing a swap of Rielly for someone younger who brings a different element to the team?

it will be interesting to see how management deals with Reilly... if you can get a decent trade for him do you move Sandin up with Brodie?... would that be a huge downgrade?...

 

[Chris]

Montreal: still sucks but still managed to beat the Leafs and make it to the finals. Losing Danault might be a biggie for them, though.

Toronto: Lost heart and soul 20+ goal scorer Zach Hyman, replaced with...Michael Bunting? Goaltending probably a wash.

Feels like if you're going to bring up the playoffs loss as particularly relevant it's important to note Montreal probably won't have Weber while the Leafs will have Tavares in all likelihood. That seems more important than, say, Hyman's heart and souling all of one goal in 7 games.

The heart and soul guy with 5 goals in 32 playoff games and 5 points in 19 games over the last three seasons.  This playoff series against Montreal really left me looking at Hyman quite confused.  Danault was glued to Matthews.  The rest of the Canadiens were shading Marner to take away his passing opportunities.  Hyman wasn't generating space for Matthews/Marner...he was the one getting it and did nothing with those opportunities.

He's still a good player that we lost but the team isn't necessarily worse off in the long-run...especially at this cap hit.  I'm still worried about the lack of depth scoring with this lineup.

To be fair, he was playing on one leg in the last Boston series, and this year he was out with a knee injury only returning for game 1 of the playoffs. One thing I did notice about him in the series against Montreal, he seemed to be trying to do too much himself. Matthews and Marner may have been covered so Hyman tried to always take the puck himself, often behind the net, trying to make a play but being unable to. Could have been his timing wasn't back yet, but it was quite noticeable.

 

[herman]

I love Hyman; the Leafs are already clearly trying to make more of him. Success will be varied, as will the flavour profiles, but it's a clear player-type this front office pursues. Hyman was Dubas' first acquisition and crown jewel of the development system he implemented under Lou's shadow, so it's not like he doesn't know how to find and nurture them.

I saw this noted in some comments somewhere (maybe r/leafs) but Hyman's playoff numbers are largely the result of injury. We love that he gives it his all every game, even in the doldrums of Febtober 2nd against a 3rd last place team in Podunksville. Come playoffs, when everyone else ramps up their games though, Hyman is already maxed and also running with a lot of wear and tear, and his impact is relatively less apparent. Conversely, Kadri ramps up so much that he shoots off the chart and into suspension.

Looking at this a little sideways, Hyman got replaced by Bunting/Kampf. Bunting is a better shooter, Kampf is better defensively and on the draw; they just don't occupy the same body.

 

[rdowdall]

I love Hyman; the Leafs are already clearly trying to make more of him. Success will be varied, as will the flavour profiles, but it's a clear player-type this front office pursues. Hyman was Dubas' first acquisition and crown jewel of the development system he implemented under Lou's shadow, so it's not like he doesn't know how to find and nurture them.

I saw this noted in some comments somewhere (maybe r/leafs) but Hyman's playoff numbers are largely the result of injury. We love that he gives it his all every game, even in the doldrums of Febtober 2nd against a 3rd last place team in Podunksville. Come playoffs, when everyone else ramps up their games though, Hyman is already maxed and also running with a lot of wear and tear, and his impact is relatively less apparent. Conversely, Kadri ramps up so much that he shoots off the chart and into suspension.

Looking at this a little sideways, Hyman got replaced by Bunting/Kampf. Bunting is a better shooter, Kampf is better defensively and on the draw; they just don't occupy the same body.

So Heisenberg-hyman?  Or just Hei(sen)man?

 

[herman]

I love Hyman; the Leafs are already clearly trying to make more of him. Success will be varied, as will the flavour profiles, but it's a clear player-type this front office pursues. Hyman was Dubas' first acquisition and crown jewel of the development system he implemented under Lou's shadow, so it's not like he doesn't know how to find and nurture them.

I saw this noted in some comments somewhere (maybe r/leafs) but Hyman's playoff numbers are largely the result of injury. We love that he gives it his all every game, even in the doldrums of Febtober 2nd against a 3rd last place team in Podunksville. Come playoffs, when everyone else ramps up their games though, Hyman is already maxed and also running with a lot of wear and tear, and his impact is relatively less apparent. Conversely, Kadri ramps up so much that he shoots off the chart and into suspension.

Looking at this a little sideways, Hyman got replaced by Bunting/Kampf. Bunting is a better shooter, Kampf is better defensively and on the draw; they just don't occupy the same body.

So Heisenberg-hyman?  Or just Hei(sen)man?

I am... uncertain.

 

[L K]

Montreal: still sucks but still managed to beat the Leafs and make it to the finals. Losing Danault might be a biggie for them, though.

Toronto: Lost heart and soul 20+ goal scorer Zach Hyman, replaced with...Michael Bunting? Goaltending probably a wash.

Feels like if you're going to bring up the playoffs loss as particularly relevant it's important to note Montreal probably won't have Weber while the Leafs will have Tavares in all likelihood. That seems more important than, say, Hyman's heart and souling all of one goal in 7 games.

The heart and soul guy with 5 goals in 32 playoff games and 5 points in 19 games over the last three seasons.  This playoff series against Montreal really left me looking at Hyman quite confused.  Danault was glued to Matthews.  The rest of the Canadiens were shading Marner to take away his passing opportunities.  Hyman wasn't generating space for Matthews/Marner...he was the one getting it and did nothing with those opportunities.

He's still a good player that we lost but the team isn't necessarily worse off in the long-run...especially at this cap hit.  I'm still worried about the lack of depth scoring with this lineup.

To be fair, he was playing on one leg in the last Boston series, and this year he was out with a knee injury only returning for game 1 of the playoffs. One thing I did notice about him in the series against Montreal, he seemed to be trying to do too much himself. Matthews and Marner may have been covered so Hyman tried to always take the puck himself, often behind the net, trying to make a play but being unable to. Could have been his timing wasn't back yet, but it was quite noticeable.

Yeah I'll concede the injury stuff but I think that's a big part of the problem.  He's not healthy when the team needs him.  It's becoming a similar problem with Muzzin (albeit two fluke injuries).

 

[Kin]

Man, I just don't like the Kampf signing. That and the expansion draft decision...

Because if you could use that Kampf money and give it to Bozak or someone and roll with a line-up like:

Hoffman-Matthews-Marner
Bunting-Tavares-Nylander
Robertson-Bozak-Mikheyev
Simmonds-Engvall-Spezza

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott-Liljegren
Sandin

Mrazek
Campbell

That's a lineup I'd roll with.

 

[Kin]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/kurtis-gabriel-gold-standard-lgbtq-allies-hockey/

Nice little story about Gabriel here. Seems like a solid dude.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/kurtis-gabriel-gold-standard-lgbtq-allies-hockey/

Nice little story about Gabriel here. Seems like a solid dude.

Very easy guy to root for. His playing history definitely suggests he shouldn't be anywhere near the main team unfortunately but 1 game with him and Simmonds being the bash bros in front of a sold out Toronto crowd would be fun to watch.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/kurtis-gabriel-gold-standard-lgbtq-allies-hockey/

Nice little story about Gabriel here. Seems like a solid dude.

Very easy guy to root for. His playing history definitely suggests he shouldn't be anywhere near the main team unfortunately but 1 game with him and Simmonds being the bash bros in front of a sold out Toronto crowd would be fun to watch.

Heard an interview with him today. Sounds like a quality human being.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/MapleLeafs/status/1420832805290921996
Upgrade for Gogo

https://twitter.com/mostlyleafies/status/1391498394451988482

Continues to impress...
https://twitter.com/TorontoMarlies/status/1393682106484760576

2019-2020 highlights

 

[ZBBM]

I love Hyman; the Leafs are already clearly trying to make more of him. Success will be varied, as will the flavour profiles, but it's a clear player-type this front office pursues. Hyman was Dubas' first acquisition and crown jewel of the development system he implemented under Lou's shadow, so it's not like he doesn't know how to find and nurture them.

I saw this noted in some comments somewhere (maybe r/leafs) but Hyman's playoff numbers are largely the result of injury. We love that he gives it his all every game, even in the doldrums of Febtober 2nd against a 3rd last place team in Podunksville. Come playoffs, when everyone else ramps up their games though, Hyman is already maxed and also running with a lot of wear and tear, and his impact is relatively less apparent. Conversely, Kadri ramps up so much that he shoots off the chart and into suspension.

Looking at this a little sideways, Hyman got replaced by Bunting/Kampf. Bunting is a better shooter, Kampf is better defensively and on the draw; they just don't occupy the same body.

So Heisenberg-hyman?  Or just Hei(sen)man?

Werner "I Love To Watch" Heisenberg

 

[ZBBM]

Hmm a big rangy guy who can roof a backhand at speed?

Oh I like it.  I like it a lot.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/hardevlad/status/1420841620174524416

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/hardevlad/status/1420841620174524416

I like him to. He shows promise.

 

[Arn]

Most of the moves so far probably constitute sideways moves:

Mrazek for Andersen probably would be considered a slight "downgrade" but Mrazek and Campbell as a pair might be better than last year. So slight improvement.

Loss of Bogosian I don't think has been quite covered as yet unless there's a different makeup/style on the D

Obviously up front there's no real direct replacement for Hyman but I think the real difference there can be on the 3rd and 4th line. Bunting for Thornton is probably (sad and hard as it is to admit) an improvement. Moving Kerfoot out of 3rd line centre is also probably an improvement.

Sideways from the team that finished first in the division that came runner up in the Cup final -- that we were a goalpost or two away from being directly involved in? Surprisingly very disappointing for some people.

Not trying to pollyanna this (boo Marner-PP1, coaching deployment overreactions) and this is not directed at you, Arn, but it's like people forget this team still has Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Muzzin, Brodie, Rielly. Teams that have made big changes this offseason so far have largely just tied substantial cap anchors around their necks with middling depth (Buchnevich, Point notwithstanding). There isn't really an outright terrible contract on our cap sheet a la Phaneuf, Marleau, Zaitsev.

Mrazek is probably a downgrade from peak Andersen, but peak Andersen was 3 seasons ago; incidentally we just got the assistant coach that managed the players in front of Mrazek the past couple of seasons.

If Kampf works out as a shutdown 3C (he did effectively it on a defensively inept and moribund CHI team), then that frees up our top 6 to actually do more OZ stuff. Thornton/Kerfoot/broken Riley Nash/Engvall weren't able to do that last season, and also opens up options for either using Kerfoot in the top-6, or trading him/Engvall/Mikheyev to fill the top-6 winger more effectively and shelter Bunting.

I appreciate you?re not targeting me  ;D

I don?t think that sideways moves are necessarily a bad thing, as you seem to be suggesting.

I liked the gambles on the likes of Thornton but unfortunately it felt like it turned out to be one season too far for him and therefore too late for the Leafs.

I think, therefore, I prefer replacing that particular gamble with the likes of a Bunting where it might have more upside as he should be more likely on the upward slope than the decline.

As you also say I think our goaltending should be more balanced and solid.

I do think we have a couple of extra holes, though, particularly the Hyman shaped one. I?m not sure if we replace that with one player or alter the balance of the lineup though. Maybe spreading it round and adding a bit more depth allows Marner and Matthews to play less and then that in turn gets more out of them in the playoffs.

 

[mr grieves]

Here's where I'm at with the Leafs. I'm disappointed that a rebuild that looked so promising seems to have stalled. Some of that is just bad luck (pandemic and resulting flat cap). However, some of it also has to be put on management for signing those contracts that have helped put us in this position. And also for letting so much talent walk away for nothing over the years. The early playoff runs were nice, but it led to the rebuild being sped up - bad trades for rentals, holding onto assets that should have been traded. And there don't seem to have been any lessons learned by the core from those first couple of playoff rounds, otherwise they'd have advanced out of the first round by now.

I think this is a great, not often mentioned point. The argument wasn?t that anything can happen if you get it (we left that behind in the Nonis Era). The Shanaplan was building for sustainable success, and those first 3 appearances were supposed to provide some developmental benefit.

I'm disappointed that we had to sacrifice some good young talent and replace it with lesser talent. Connor Brown - hard working, tough to play against, capable of 20 goals. Kapanen, had issues but boy was he fun to watch. At least he could bury some of those breakaway chances (ahem, Mikheyev). Johnsson I think was a flash in the pan and injury prone, but another guy who was tough to play against and has scored 20 goals in the league. And now to top it all off, Hyman gone for nothing.

Besides Brown, there isn?t one of those I?d like to have on the 21-22 Leafs (on their current deal). I think the bigger issue is here is that we?re all out of Hymans and Browns because of all the assets spent on those luxury playoff runs in years 1-3 of the Matthews era (and screwing up a lot of drafts in the Nonis & Lou eras, it seems)

And will they let Rielly walk? Will they be able to re-sign him? After seeing some of the contracts handed out yesterday, I'm not sure they'll be able to afford him. No one seems willing to take much of a home-town discount anymore. I thought Hyman might be the one but was obviously wrong about that. Will Rielly be the one? Maybe?

On free agency day I saw some player who signed with the Wild talk about how exciting their vibe was? then the Leafs signed guys I?d never heard of. Mileage ain?t great in free agency, but I wonder if we?ve gone around the bend on that Babcock prediction.

 

[Redleaf]

I love Hyman; the Leafs are already clearly trying to make more of him. Success will be varied, as will the flavour profiles, but it's a clear player-type this front office pursues. Hyman was Dubas' first acquisition and crown jewel of the development system he implemented under Lou's shadow, so it's not like he doesn't know how to find and nurture them.

I saw this noted in some comments somewhere (maybe r/leafs) but Hyman's playoff numbers are largely the result of injury. We love that he gives it his all every game, even in the doldrums of Febtober 2nd against a 3rd last place team in Podunksville. Come playoffs, when everyone else ramps up their games though, Hyman is already maxed and also running with a lot of wear and tear, and his impact is relatively less apparent. Conversely, Kadri ramps up so much that he shoots off the chart and into suspension.

Looking at this a little sideways, Hyman got replaced by Bunting/Kampf. Bunting is a better shooter, Kampf is better defensively and on the draw; they just don't occupy the same body.

Man..this post just made me even more depressed with Hyman's departure than I already was. Big, big loss in terms of shear determination and puck retrieval. 

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1416479884512305156
We can do this?

Don?t we have like 37 assistant coaches now?

https://theathletic.com/2740341/2021/07/30/maple-leafs-klokebook-some-now-former-leafs-say-their-goodbyes-in-exit-interviews-and-getting-to-know-the-new-leafs/

It?s still unclear what role Carbery will fill with Manny Malhotra running the power play and new addition Dean Chynoweth running the penalty kill. But when Carbery was hired, Leafs head coach Sheldon Keefe noted his ?great mind for the game along with the necessary work ethic, energy and communication skills we were looking for.?

And Wellar believes Carbery can utilize his ?polished? communication skills to deliver his message clearly to NHL players.

?His natural ability to address the team is probably the best I?ve ever seen, and I?ve been around some really good coaches through my career. His messages that he delivers, I leave the room wishing I was a hockey player again. That?s something that just comes from his passion. He?s a very intelligent man, and he just finds ways to keep things fresh,? said Wellar.

Assistant Coach of Motivational Speeches, apparently