2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Kin]

Marner with 2yrs on his deal and a Selke finalist. Not sure how you get better value. I think lots of front offices will chalk this up to the Leafs effect where he isn't the best in the playoffs due to hometown jitters etc.

I mean, you'd probably get slightly better value if the entirety of the fanbase weren't calling him an overpriced bum who can never help this team win. And two years on his deal.

I've said this before but, in general, your argument for getting a good return on a player relies on something along the lines of "These professional talent evaluators will not make the same very solid conclusion I have been able to reach about a player" then I think you're probably resorting to some wishful thinking. 

And I mean, the idea shouldn't just be for depth in the strictest sense, If we re-sign Matthews and Nylander then I don't think we need to be at the top in terms of overall talent. I think we've seen time and again that talent without a type of tenacity and grit is good on the margins but not in the core. Verhaghe's only in the conversation because he emerged to be that player. The Leafs have to try and get players back that aren't at their peak now but can be useful now and emerge to be better players in the following years. Sometimes you have to pull a St. Louis and reload.

I mean, I don't agree with either the idea that the players the Leafs have are especially lacking in tenacity or grit or that you need a certain kind of tenacity or grit to be successful in the playoffs and I think arguments that you do tend to work backwords from well, Evgeni Malkin/Patrick Kane/Nikita Kucherov have tenacity/grit because they've won but guys who haven't won don't have it and the proof is they haven't won. It really feels like everyone might have learned their lesson on that front with Phil Kessel and Ovechkin and the countless other examples but, well, there you are.

But regardless, this still doesn't read like a particularly good plan. Identifying your Verhaeghes of the world doesn't require trading guys like Marner and having a talent deficiency at the top is still a pretty big deal if you're looking to win things. Trading Marner, to me, is really just a recipe for this team in two or three years trying to figure out how to find another Marner.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Marner with 2yrs on his deal and a Selke finalist. Not sure how you get better value. I think lots of front offices will chalk this up to the Leafs effect where he isn't the best in the playoffs due to hometown jitters etc.

I mean, you'd probably get slightly better value if the entirety of the fanbase weren't calling him an overpriced bum who can never help this team win. And two years on his deal.

I've said this before but, in general, your argument for getting a good return on a player relies on something along the lines of "These professional talent evaluators will not make the same very solid conclusion I have been able to reach about a player" then I think you're probably resorting to some wishful thinking. 

And I mean, the idea shouldn't just be for depth in the strictest sense, If we re-sign Matthews and Nylander then I don't think we need to be at the top in terms of overall talent. I think we've seen time and again that talent without a type of tenacity and grit is good on the margins but not in the core. Verhaghe's only in the conversation because he emerged to be that player. The Leafs have to try and get players back that aren't at their peak now but can be useful now and emerge to be better players in the following years. Sometimes you have to pull a St. Louis and reload.

I mean, I don't agree with either the idea that the players the Leafs have are especially lacking in tenacity or grit or that you need a certain kind of tenacity or grit to be successful in the playoffs and I think arguments that you do tend to work backwords from well, Evgeni Malkin/Patrick Kane/Nikita Kucherov have tenacity/grit because they've won but guys who haven't won don't have it and the proof is they haven't won. It really feels like everyone might have learned their lesson on that front with Phil Kessel and Ovechkin and the countless other examples but, well, there you are.

But regardless, this still doesn't read like a particularly good plan. Identifying your Verhaeghes of the world doesn't require trading guys like Marner and having a talent deficiency at the top is still a pretty big deal if you're looking to win things. Trading Marner, to me, is really just a recipe for this team in two or three years trying to figure out how to find another Marner.

Identifying your Verhaeghes seems more like throwing darts and hoping something hits.

 

[Kin]

Identifying your Verhaeghes seems more like throwing darts and hoping something hits.

That is, of course, fair. But some teams do seem to assemble enough talent in a short enough period of time that my inclination is to think there are a few Phil "The Power" Taylors out there.

 

[Deebo]

Identifying your Verhaeghes seems more like throwing darts and hoping something hits.

That is, of course, fair. But some teams do seem to assemble enough talent in a short enough period of time that my inclination is to think there are a few Phil "The Power" Taylors out there.

Did you google best dart players ever or did you already know that?

 

[Kin]

Identifying your Verhaeghes seems more like throwing darts and hoping something hits.

That is, of course, fair. But some teams do seem to assemble enough talent in a short enough period of time that my inclination is to think there are a few Phil "The Power" Taylors out there.

Did you google best dart players ever or did you already know that?

I'm enough of an Anglophile to make the occasional reference like that. I also know, for instance, names like Ronnie O'Sullivan or Stephen Hendry.

I know absolutely nothing about them other than "They are considered good at their fairly niche sports" to be fair.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/itsmitchmarney/status/1659922923556044801
Nvm

 

[L K]

He was held back initially due to insurance reasons.  Is it a Toronto Maple Leafs issue or an insurance problem.  Wasn't there reports of him wearing some supports on his back part way through the year.  Would certainly explain his drop off in play down the stretch and in the postseason. 

If he couldn't get signed off for insurance maybe it wasn't worth the risk of him going.  Particularly with a contract extension on the horizon (with the Leafs or elsewhere)

 

[herman]

He was held back initially due to insurance reasons.  Is it a Toronto Maple Leafs issue or an insurance problem.  Wasn't there reports of him wearing some supports on his back part way through the year.  Would certainly explain his drop off in play down the stretch and in the postseason. 

If he couldn't get signed off for insurance maybe it wasn't worth the risk of him going.  Particularly with a contract extension on the horizon (with the Leafs or elsewhere)

He wears a back support thing regularly these days. You can see it when they play two touch.

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1659990756180852739
Good guy Willy will not screw a Tre Kronos bror

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/sellishockey/status/1661036968791162882

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/itsmitchmarney/status/1661830207295070221

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/iihfhockey/status/1661800836316696577