2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[herman]

Agreed. His regular season performances have absolutely lived up to his salary. His playoff performances, especially later in the series, leave something to be desired, though.

I think most people would prefer the reverse arrangement: boring regular season (and paid accordingly), elevates in the spring. Being highly paid for superlative regular season production boxes the team out from better depth options, which seem to matter a buttload more in playoff serieses.

 

[bustaheims]

I think most people would prefer the reverse arrangement: boring regular season (and paid accordingly), elevates in the spring. Being highly paid for superlative regular season production boxes the team out from better depth options, which seem to matter a buttload more in playoff serieses.

Sure, and I’m not convinced resigning Marner is the right move. While you can’t replace that kind of talent, the team can still come out ahead if they add the right pieces in his place.

 

[IJustLurkHere]

It seems to me that he feels entitled to maximize his earnings, have fun, win, and not be criticized. Those things don’t go together, and I don’t think he has the emotional maturity to give on any one of them. So it’s not going to work in Toronto.

Unfortunately, other markets will be able to pitch players that they can have money, fun and win without the microscope of Toronto. If our pitch is players need to be emotionally mature enough to give on one of those things, that seems likely to be a problem for the Leafs signing free agents (not just Marner) more than a flaw in the players.

 

[ZBBM]

If Marner is driven out I guarantee the next whipping boy will be Flyby Willy whose shirtless nonchalance and swagger have also delivered exactly squat like the rest of them.

That shtick is also getting old.

 

[mr grieves]

six straight seasons at a 100-point pace (110 one year) plus a 94-point season before that with Selke consideration.

his level of compensation is not misaligned; people's expectations are.

You know very well we're talking playoffs here.

Over most of his contract, Marner was the league's 5th highest paid forward.

Do you think he was 5th in playoff goals over that period? Points? Points per game?

 

[mr grieves]

Unfortunately, other markets will be able to pitch players that they can have money, fun and win without the microscope of Toronto. If our pitch is players need to be emotionally mature enough to give on one of those things, that seems likely to be a problem for the Leafs signing free agents (not just Marner) more than a flaw in the players.

I agree that needing emotional maturity from professional athletes doesn't mode well... certain types of mental illness and maladjustments can work too, I think?

As to the idea that "other markets will be able to pitch players that they can have money, fun and win" -- pitch, maybe, but can they actually give him that...? I say no. Mitch Marner is not getting paid $13M on a team that'll have enough depth to go deep. So, winning's out. But in a lot of markets no one would notice.

 

[IJustLurkHere]

I agree that needing emotional maturity from professional athletes doesn't mode well... certain types of mental illness and maladjustments can work too, I think?

As to the idea that "other markets will be able to pitch players that they can have money, fun and win" -- pitch, maybe, but can they actually give him that...? I say no. Mitch Marner is not getting paid $13M on a team that'll have enough depth to go deep. So, winning's out. But in a lot of markets no one would notice.

I guess we'll see where he lands and for how much. I think it's a stretch to say that winning is out. Carolina or LA have room. Tampa and Florida look like they're tapped out... and wherever he signs, he'll also be looking at what he adds to the team.

He was PPG in the 2025 playoffs after a 100 point season, and he's just about being run out of town. It's not going to be a moral failing on his part to try and have it all somewhere else.

 

[Bullfrog]

I think most people would prefer the reverse arrangement: boring regular season (and paid accordingly), elevates in the spring. Being highly paid for superlative regular season production boxes the team out from better depth options, which seem to matter a buttload more in playoff serieses.

Out of curiosity, how many players fit into that box? There's always someone who has a hot streak, for sure. But I don't think this is predictable. Given the limited number of playoff games, I also doubt it's statistically significant.

Hockey is entertainment. I enjoy great regular-season games; Marner provides those. Would I enjoy a championship? Or at least a deep playoff run? Of course; it'd be amazing.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Out of curiosity, how many players fit into that box? There's always someone who has a hot streak, for sure. But I don't think this is predictable. Given the limited number of playoff games, I also doubt it's statistically significant.

Hockey is entertainment. I enjoy great regular-season games; Marner provides those. Would I enjoy a championship? Or at least a deep playoff run? Of course; it'd be amazing.

I’d also add that Marner’s regular seasons are a significant part of the reason we even get to have these complaints about the playoffs, compared to somewhere like Buffalo as an extreme example.

Maybe the Leafs just got unlucky drafting two superstars who are exceptions to the playoff rule for some reason.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think most people would prefer the reverse arrangement: boring regular season (and paid accordingly), elevates in the spring. Being highly paid for superlative regular season production boxes the team out from better depth options, which seem to matter a buttload more in playoff serieses.

I agree that all would like better results in the playoffs but watching 82 boring games during the year would make many lose interest. Hockey is entertainment, that's all it is and I have zero interest in watching a boring team. And while I would enjoy the Leafs winning the cup, overall, I couldn't care less. My name isn't going on the trophy and I'm not getting paid millions to play so it really wouldn't affect my life in the least except for a few bragging moments that "my team" won.

 

[herman]

Out of curiosity, how many players fit into that box? There's always someone who has a hot streak, for sure. But I don't think this is predictable. Given the limited number of playoff games, I also doubt it's statistically significant.

Hockey is entertainment. I enjoy great regular-season games; Marner provides those. Would I enjoy a championship? Or at least a deep playoff run? Of course; it'd be amazing.

That's a very fair point, and probably a bit tricky to identify; I surmise it comes down to playstyle at the foundation, and then psychological the rest of the way. But Bennett appears to clearly be one of them. Unfortunately his agent is well known to us and will goose that number unless Bennett is a big time team player. Matthew Knies looks to be one of them, fortunately.

On the counterpoint, does it make sense for a team with higher aspirations to keep doubling down with a very expensive player that consistently falls off a cliff when you need him most? Marner is paired with Matthews come hell or high water and they both just drop like rocks in production. Targeting Marner hamstrings Matthews with or without injury as the coaching staff keeps leaning on them. I get that they're the matchup line and acquit themselves reasonably defensively; but they're also paid to overwhelm their matchups and they generally are not doing that. Getting iced out by Lundell and the likes of Danault hurt when their cap allocation limits what the team can do on depth. Expectations would be more tempered if they weren't deployed like the team's life depended on it.

What if that 13-14M was split into a decent top-6 star, and a 3C, and a fast PK checker. If the top 6 gets nullified, the 3rd line has a chance of doing consistent damage.

 

[Redleaf]

Looks like we’re seeing some softening about changing up this team too much and getting rid of my favourite player in the league …Mitch Marner.

I’m torn. How do you replace a Marner after letting him go for nothing ? I’m also determined to live as long as it takes to see my team finally win a Stanley cup. And if I’m being honest , those days are dwindling fast now that I’ve just turned 57.

I think I’m leaning toward seeing him go and hoping we can bring in the playoff type performers needed to put this team over the hump.

 

[herman]

I agree that all would like better results in the playoffs but watching 82 boring games during the year would make many lose interest. Hockey is entertainment, that's all it is and I have zero interest in watching a boring team. And while I would enjoy the Leafs winning the cup, overall, I couldn't care less. My name isn't going on the trophy and I'm not getting paid millions to play so it really wouldn't affect my life in the least except for a few bragging moments that "my team" won.

Fans are born in the playoff drives. Do you know how many are in this because of 1993 or the early 2000s beating up on Ottawa? People care about the regular season the way people care about the first 3 quarters of a basketball game: only when they're already invested.

It's not like the team is losing Matthews and Nylander and Knies at the same time. Marner does not have a monopoly on the Maple Leafs' razzle dazzle per 60. In any case, a one-timer off a zorro pass through the slot counts the same as a 4th liner crashing the net to shovel in a rebound.

 

[herman]

I’d also add that Marner’s regular seasons are a significant part of the reason we even get to have these complaints about the playoffs, compared to somewhere like Buffalo as an extreme example.

Maybe the Leafs just got unlucky drafting two superstars who are exceptions to the playoff rule for some reason.

Good to see you again!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we don't need stars. I'm just saying (for years now) this star isn't working as advertised, so let's get different stuff and try a different way.

 

[ZBBM]

I had never read anything by Pelley before. I'm not that easy to impress, but he impressed me here.

Keith Pelley on a possible shift in the Leafs' management style without Brendan Shanahan: "The only fundamental difference — from a hockey perspective, this will be Brad Treliving's team"

On the 100% Hockey Podcast, MLSE CEO and President Keith Pelley discussed the challenges of his job, the difficulty of parting ways with Brendan Shanahan, his working relationship with Brad Treliving, the changes ahead this offseason, and much more. It was an eventful week. Have you digested...

mapleleafshotstove.com

 

[mr grieves]

I guess we'll see where he lands and for how much. I think it's a stretch to say that winning is out. Carolina or LA have room. Tampa and Florida look like they're tapped out... and wherever he signs, he'll also be looking at what he adds to the team.

We'll see what he signs for and what's already there -- cost-controlled, quality supporting players would certainly help. I think the list of players you can devote 13-15% of the cap to and survive the resulting depth mismatch is very short, and Mitch ain't on it.

He was PPG in the 2025 playoffs after a 100 point season, and he's just about being run out of town. It's not going to be a moral failing on his part to try and have it all somewhere else.

It's not a moral failing to want to try to have it all, no. It's just a recipe for unhappiness and a sign of immaturity. Maybe Mitch gives on one of wanting so desperately to win, wanting every last dollar the market will bear, or wanting positive interactions with sports fans. I hope for his sake fatherhood has that effect.