2024 Offseason Thread: Changes
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
herman said:
It certainly does if it carries on as it has been.
It risks damaging their playoff chances next season.
It risks losing him for little or nothing.
The upside of doing this seems like a real longshot to pull off - to get a credible return.
I doubt what Marner's side has said seems like "posturing" to them.
There's not much to posture about from Marner camp's perspective.
They already have a contract that they're abiding by. They've told us that multiple times.
They've said they do not want to discuss it further this summer.
The die was cast many years ago: Mitch will become a UFA with a NMC in July 2025.
If the Leafs value his services, they can show Mitch how much before July 2025.
In the interim, the Leafs can explain to Mitch why they expect his new team should have to give up a bunch of assets that would otherwise have helped him after he arrives at his new destination in a trade as opposed to going there for no asset cost as a UFA in July 2025. I think the Leafs need more than posturing there ... but I sincerely doubt it will fool Marner's agent. The Leafs are effectively asking the destination team to pay for a hunk their mismanagement screw up.
herman
Well-known member
Can't remember when I said it, because hot diggity, I post a lot, but after losing to Florida last season (or was it this season?), I noted that we have the template for how to play in the playoffs (let's be fasstholes), and we need to build it up in the regular season as a matter of course to make it instinctive. We proceeded to not do that through some combination of Keefe stubbornness in the early goings and several core players kind of not being able to execute.
Here's where my hope lies:
[*] Treliving believes in fast and heavy structure designed for the playoffs from the get go; defense is about team checking and pressure on the puck
[*] the new coach believes in fast, north-south, structured, off-the-rush AND heavy cycle playoff style from the get go
[*] we have most of the personnel up front required for such a game
[*] the defensemen required (that we don't have) for such a playstyle are the ones the GM and coach both favour: long, aggressive, puck movers
[*] playing in the above style naturally insulates the goaltender if pucks in the DZ are aggressively smothered and chipped out for breakaways the other way, vs holding the puck forever in the OZ until an oopsie at the blueline leads to an odd-man rush down your throat.
Here's where my hope lies:
[*] Treliving believes in fast and heavy structure designed for the playoffs from the get go; defense is about team checking and pressure on the puck
[*] the new coach believes in fast, north-south, structured, off-the-rush AND heavy cycle playoff style from the get go
[*] we have most of the personnel up front required for such a game
[*] the defensemen required (that we don't have) for such a playstyle are the ones the GM and coach both favour: long, aggressive, puck movers
[*] playing in the above style naturally insulates the goaltender if pucks in the DZ are aggressively smothered and chipped out for breakaways the other way, vs holding the puck forever in the OZ until an oopsie at the blueline leads to an odd-man rush down your throat.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
herman said:
This is what is needed.
WE can only hope that the current group can play that style.
cw said:
At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what the media and fans think and they have a right to think however they like. I don't really care what the camp and Marner's agent has said to the media, but if Marner and his camp think that's a problem then he really shouldn't be here.
Bender said:
That is not the problem.
Here's Treliving a year ago in a similar situation with Matthews and Nylander:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/the-sooner-the-better-maple-leafs-treliving-on-resigning-matthews-and-nylander/?show_id=13373
You get the same vibe for how Treliving has spoken about re-signing Marner?
I sure don't.
I doubt Marner does either.
When the media stuff broke, the Marner camp did what it could to tamp it down.
Did Treliving & the Leafs?
No, they really didn't.
"Doing whatever was best for the club and looking at all our options" (paraphrased) did not default with the same resolve to re-sign Marner as there was for re-signing Matthews & Nylander.
That sends a message.
He's the GM. That's his prerogative. But ..
That message has been received loud and clear by the Marner & his agent.
Not entertaining a discussion during the summer is a change in his position from his year end PC.
Effectively, their answer seems to be "maybe we'll consider an offer from you next July during the UFA bidding. In the interim, we're definitely staying where we are until the season starts. After that point, with his cap hit, good luck trying to swing a deal that doesn't compromise your 2025 playoff aspirations if you make it too ugly for him to play out his contract in Toronto dishonoring his contract."
Is that the best asset management approach?
I have my doubts.
It is probably not going to end well from a Leafs fan perspective.
Andy007
Active member
Joe said:
You know, there are more than a few things one can point out if they want to criticize Treliving's GM acumen but the trading of an impending FA who was refusing to re-sign with his team and had a preferred, singular trade destination and likening that to the current Marner situation is a bit of a stretch.
Andy said:
Absolutely. I can admit that he made something out of being forced into a corner. But he also f?d up that signing because from what I could tell from some older articles Tkachuk was willing to sign a deal a year earlier and Treliving played hardball (or something to that effect, I?d have to dig into it again).
But the real unforced error was that crazy contract he gave huberdeau.
herman
Well-known member
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-matthew-tkachuk-wanted-to-sign-long-term-deal-with-flames-in-2019-160851344.html
He wanted a long term deal coming out of his ELC, but Calgary had a tight cap and could only do a bridge amount. So term went down to 3 years and he cut bait after that. Arbitration was filed to stretch out the timeline for them to work out the sign and trade.
He wanted a long term deal coming out of his ELC, but Calgary had a tight cap and could only do a bridge amount. So term went down to 3 years and he cut bait after that. Arbitration was filed to stretch out the timeline for them to work out the sign and trade.
herman
Well-known member
Bullfrog said:
I believe Marner would prefer to stay. I also believe he believes he won?t get what he and his camp think he?s worth, and he is open to pursuing it elsewhere, hence the loveless ?Marner will fulfil his contractual obligation? position.
Everything ever said to the media in this industry is for the purpose of posturing. That?s how negotiations work when there is public interest.
In the meantime, the Leafs front office just told their insiders to can it because it?s not helping their position.
Friedman, on the 32 Thoughts podcast, has declared a moratorium on the topic of Marner
The Leafs are using Chris Johnston to tell the rest of the league who is interested in Marner they have to step up their offers if they want anything to done.
Transcriptions from:
https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/i-am-going-on-a-mitch-marner-moratorium-does-the-discourse-on-the-maple-leafs-star-forward-need-a-break
https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/report-maple-leafs-have-not-decided-100-percent-that-they-have-to-trade-mitch-marner
And if you want to know what the Marner camp is thinking, just watch for Darren Dreger.
We are so not ready for the 2.0 version of all this.
mr grieves
New member
herman said:
And here's a solution. Playing with Matthews might be Marner's best chance at a big payday, but it's likely not the team's best chance at playoff success. Berube spreads the attack out, lets Mitch drive his own (or Tavares's) line, and we'll see if he's a $100m player for any team he really wants to be on. I have my doubts!