2024 Offseason Thread: Changes
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
If Marner was signed and Nylander was going into his last year I am confident everyone would be discussing trading Nylander right now. "He disappears for games at a time", "he doesn't care", "he is not good defensively"... this would be the dialogue. Cap/core reallocation is the discussion not specifically Marner.
Joe said:
Obviously it's not the reason, there's lots of reasons why the Leafs are where they are, but I don't buy the whole own rental idea and that we should hang on to expiring contracts (in this case Marner) or we're not serious about winning. Just off the top of my head we've walked Bozak, JVR, Barrie, Kerfoot etc.
I don't understand how worrying about assets walking for nothing means you aren't serious about winning. Is that how people feel if we don't use all our draft capital for rentals too?
*Edit I should probably rephrase my stance as the Leafs are where they are in large part due to poor asset management, of which walking guys to free agency is a subsection of that.
herman
Well-known member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
It's something built into the Leafs structure (and most teams do this) called 'pushing the pace' or 'flying the zone'.
https://jhanhky.substack.com/p/how-tor-created-rush-offense-in-game
Standard in Babcock's time with the Leafs was JvR at the opposing blueline waiting for a flip out by Zaitsev or whoever. Usually hidden from the broadcast angles when they focus on the puck carrier on breakouts.
You remember Willy doing it because he tends to make something happen with it.
Bender said:
I was genuinely asking because I didn?t know where you were going with that point.
I?d agree that it?s a factor. But I don?t think it?s a leading one.
If I were to oversimplify this it?s that the team got too good too fast and then the subsequent years they were blowing picks on deadline acquisitions, when they should have kept building up through the draft. If you ask me, that?s the biggest mistake they made.
Keeping Marner, Matthews nylander and even Tavares could have been sustainable had they not acted like they were a move away from a cup every season.
herman
Well-known member
cabber24 said:
It's not comedy. The tactic Ferris used in the last negotiation was that Matthews was the only comparable and basically just said "give Mitch the Matthews deal" for the whole offseason before conceding like half a mil to get a bit more term. My read on the negotiation was that Dubas was trying to keep it to start with 9 and Ferris was saying 11+ the whole way until Marner said do something now, and Shanahan (I theorize) stepped in to push it to 10.9. You could see how pissed Dubas was at that presser lol
[youtube]0u-dZy9nOlo[/youtube]
Peter D.
Moderator
cabber24 said:
He's going to be looking for a raise to his $10.903 million he earns now. He doesn't deserve to be paid more than Matthews, nor do I think will do so based on principle, but he will be seeking to make more than Nylander. And with salaries only going to be escalating now that the cap is on the upswing again, he's going to be the benefactor of such along with all the upcoming free agents in the coming years.
I think that number is a good middle ground and clean and easy to get done.
Whether we think he is worth that much is a different topic altogether. But I'd much rather pay him that money than try and chisel him to a number he won't agree to where we risk losing him. Talents like him are not easy to find and/or replace.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Bender said:
I typed a response to your original "it's the media's fault" response but walked away due to work getting in the way.
I didn't say that the media is at fault for where the Leafs are right now. I said the way this has eaten up all the talk in newspapers, broadcasts, podcasts and subsequently the workplaces and pubs is the media driving the conversation. I realize that it's an item that has to be dealt with but Marner doesn't become such a bum if the media(and herman) don't drive it down the throats of everyone at home.
In regards to the poor asset management problem, I was going to come back with "what assets walked for nothing", but that's already been asked. Like them, I forgot about JVR and Bozak..and also Barrie and Kerfoot. While I agree with you that you have to manage your assets and get something for them when you see they're going to walk for nothing, I also think you have to examine where those players fit in your overall structure and where your team is at in terms of legitimately competing to win in the playoffs. Despite their success or lack of success, the Leafs have repeatedly gone into the playoffs as competitive teams. Hindsight says their choices didn't work out, but I don't think trading Kerfoot for a 3rd rounder would have helped maximize that success. Now, Marner would bring in a much larger prize, so in that sense, it's definitely something you have to look at. But, he would also create a much bigger hole than any of the above assets, so that has to weigh heavily on your decision.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Active member
I mean, it's one thing to let your UFA's walk, it's quite another to just keep dealing picks and prospects for rentals. That is really what has messed up this team. No cheap talent. They have to keep going to the UFA market, overpaying for marginal talent.
Sure, it gets to the point where you may not be able to keep all your homegrown talent. That is when you take advantage of dealing from a position of strength. Dealing those players you can't afford for what you really need, or for more picks.
This team is bereft of any prospects that look like a sure NHL'ers except for Cowan. Nothing on defense, and nothing in goal. Hildeby is still a big question mark.
Sure, it gets to the point where you may not be able to keep all your homegrown talent. That is when you take advantage of dealing from a position of strength. Dealing those players you can't afford for what you really need, or for more picks.
This team is bereft of any prospects that look like a sure NHL'ers except for Cowan. Nothing on defense, and nothing in goal. Hildeby is still a big question mark.