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Ashton up, Holland down

Tigger said:
I don't think a substantial change in the bottom six/distribution of minutes is going to turn the Leafs into world beaters but yeah, likely better. It's easy to throw stones from the outside though so I take it with a grain or two, and that's not a lot.
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I agree that it wouldn't necessarily make them a significantly better team, but, at least they'd be playing with their best possible roster used more efficiently. That, and an adjustment in tactics . . . well, this is well worn territory by this point.
 
bustaheims said:
Tigger said:
I don't think a substantial change in the bottom six/distribution of minutes is going to turn the Leafs into world beaters but yeah, likely better. It's easy to throw stones from the outside though so I take it with a grain or two, and that's not a lot.
Click to expand...

I agree that it wouldn't necessarily make them a significantly better team, but, at least they'd be playing with their best possible roster used more efficiently. That, and an adjustment in tactics . . . well, this is well worn territory by this point.
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For sure, and for the record, optimal adherence would suit me just fine. The Orr's and the McLaren's can find something else to do if it means the Leafs can rummage up a few more points, we are not amused, otherwise...
 
bustaheims said:
Tigger said:
I don't think a substantial change in the bottom six/distribution of minutes is going to turn the Leafs into world beaters but yeah, likely better. It's easy to throw stones from the outside though so I take it with a grain or two, and that's not a lot.
Click to expand...

I agree that it wouldn't necessarily make them a significantly better team, but, at least they'd be playing with their best possible roster used more efficiently. That, and an adjustment in tactics . . . well, this is well worn territory by this point.
Click to expand...

I don't like this team's roster very much, but I don't think even the most pessimistic, down-on-these-guys fan thinks this team isn't better than the 87 point wonder they've been since the first month. Not world beaters, no. But, with this goaltending, they should be improving on last year's results.
 
All those tweets from Brady and the supposed message-sending from Nonis to RC strike me as ridiculous. This isn't freaking N Korea where you have to walk on eggshells to avoid offending Supreme Leader Carlyle.

Here's s radical idea: if Nonis wants to send a message, why doesn't he just walk into the coach's office and say you're going to start playing Holland or else.

"Management is going to start taking back the team"?  Good God.
 
Wasnt Kadri a winger at times in juniors? When Bolland comes back why not put Holland on 2nd line and use Kadri on wing with Lupul... Then gow tih Bolland Raymond and Calrkson for the 3rd and then McClement on the 4th line (where he should be) with D'Amigo and the flavor of the night so they can get a few more minutes without taxing the top lines
 
Boston Leaf said:
Wasnt Kadri a winger at times in juniors? When Bolland comes back why not put Holland on 2nd line and use Kadri on wing with Lupul... Then gow tih Bolland Raymond and Calrkson for the 3rd and then McClement on the 4th line (where he should be) with D'Amigo and the flavor of the night so they can get a few more minutes without taxing the top lines
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Where do we put Kulimen then?
 
Boston Leaf said:
Wasnt Kadri a winger at times in juniors? When Bolland comes back why not put Holland on 2nd line and use Kadri on wing with Lupul... Then gow tih Bolland Raymond and Calrkson for the 3rd and then McClement on the 4th line (where he should be) with D'Amigo and the flavor of the night so they can get a few more minutes without taxing the top lines
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Where do we put Kulemin?
 
mr grieves said:
I don't like this team's roster very much, but I don't think even the most pessimistic, down-on-these-guys fan thinks this team isn't better than the 87 point wonder they've been since the first month. Not world beaters, no. But, with this goaltending, they should be improving on last year's results.
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I agree.  Right now the team is less than the sum of the parts which is disappointing.
 
mr grieves said:
I don't like this team's roster very much, but I don't think even the most pessimistic, down-on-these-guys fan thinks this team isn't better than the 87 point wonder they've been since the first month. Not world beaters, no. But, with this goaltending, they should be improving on last year's results.
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Aren't you the guy who argued all summer that they made terrible roster moves at the center position, didn't address the gaping need on defense and made their big free agent signing on a player who didn't deserve it?
 
OldTimeHockey said:
Boston Leaf said:
Wasnt Kadri a winger at times in juniors? When Bolland comes back why not put Holland on 2nd line and use Kadri on wing with Lupul... Then gow tih Bolland Raymond and Calrkson for the 3rd and then McClement on the 4th line (where he should be) with D'Amigo and the flavor of the night so they can get a few more minutes without taxing the top lines
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Where do we put Kulemin?
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Well we would have a heck of a 4th line with Kulemin, Jay Mac and D'Amigo. Best we've seen in years
 
Well said:

Holland has 10 points in 26 games averaging 11:33 a night while Jay McClement has 5 points in 43 games averaging 16:45. Down two goals against the Islanders, though, it was McClement out there instead of Holland trying to score. In fact, Holland played 4:30 on the night, the lowest of any Leaf on the team (including both enforcers). Can?t sugar coat this. In no world does that make sense. None.
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http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2014/01/08/leafs-notebook-january-8/
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
All those tweets from Brady and the supposed message-sending from Nonis to RC strike me as ridiculous. This isn't freaking N Korea where you have to walk on eggshells to avoid offending Supreme Leader Carlyle.

Here's s radical idea: if Nonis wants to send a message, why doesn't he just walk into the coach's office and say you're going to start playing Holland or else.

"Management is going to start taking back the team"?  Good God.
Click to expand...

Word is they already did that in early December about Rielly and Holland. It worked for a while, but, obviously, with Holland, it's not working anymore. I'm confident in believing that this move is Nonis saying to Carlyle that this is his last chance to turn things around doing it his way.
 
Nik the Trik said:
mr grieves said:
I don't like this team's roster very much, but I don't think even the most pessimistic, down-on-these-guys fan thinks this team isn't better than the 87 point wonder they've been since the first month. Not world beaters, no. But, with this goaltending, they should be improving on last year's results.
Click to expand...

Aren't you the guy who argued all summer that they made terrible roster moves at the center position, didn't address the gaping need on defense and made their big free agent signing on a player who didn't deserve it?
Click to expand...

Are you asking why I'm not saying 'told you so'?

Maybe I never said it all that explicitly, but I eventually came around to the view that the marginal losses of speed, talent, and depth in the forward group were probably about balanced by other upgrades that'd come from the development of guys still on the roster (Kadri, JvR), the upgrade by using the playoff performers on defense (notably Gardiner), and the likely upgrade in goal. Maybe the team wouldn't be as good as I thought it could be with a properly used Grabo and MacArthur, in addition to all that other stuff, but, without them, they should still be a pretty talented young team. So your summer shooting me down wasn't wasted effort.

The players haven't been that far off from those optimistic projections: Gardiner's been great, JvR has been great (until the last 10-15), Rielly made the team and has contributed as expected, the goaltending's been as good if not better than anyone anticipated, Kadri's regressed all the way to a solid second line center (who's now in a slump, but it's not a wasted season yet). Clarkson's been more of a non-factor than I expected, Franson and Ranger have disappointed, Lupul turns out not to be a 1.5 ppg player (though 50-60 points is plenty good), but I can't really say too many players have delivered really terrible seasons. We've seen good things from the AHLers they've introduced to the roster, Holland's been a great pick up. And so I just don't think this roster's as bad as they've been for most of the season.
 
Since this thread is sort of relevant to Carlyle's insistence on playing Orr....13 goalies in NHL history have better PPG numbers than Orr.  Three of which in more games played than Orr.  From PPP: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlBZxpXinYkCdDJlWlc4MUI5Wm13cE54dmJrTklva3c&usp=drive_web#gid=0

That's just...
 
Potvin29 said:
Since this thread is sort of relevant to Carlyle's insistence on playing Orr....13 goalies in NHL history have better PPG numbers than Orr.  Three of which in more games played than Orr.  From PPP: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlBZxpXinYkCdDJlWlc4MUI5Wm13cE54dmJrTklva3c&usp=drive_web#gid=0

That's just...
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I expected there to be a lot more guys on that list with just a single season or so under their belts. That's awful.
 
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