WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
Bullfrog said:
Indeed, paging a moderator.
Asking price for Tyler Bozak appears to be a second round pick
- Thread starter hobarth
- Start date
Indeed, paging a moderator.
Significantly Insignificant said:
Boston ditched Hamilton because they felt his demands exceeded his potential, along with other reasons, so there is no logical reason TO should resign him unless his demands reflect his value, that's what I'm talking about.
The NYI were able to significantly improve their roster because they had the money, TO needs to be in a place sometime in the near future, I hope. to use it's financial clout for other reasons than getting out of poor contracts. Retaining Bozak at 4 plus was a mistake and signing Kadri for any more than he gets now would also be unrealistic.
It's time TO became proactive rather than react while in panic, neither of those 2 are significant pieces of winning hockey teams, let's save the $s so TO can properly apply it.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
Hobarth, read the following and then please shut the fuck up.
www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/trading-kadri-mistake-maple-leafs/
www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/trading-kadri-mistake-maple-leafs/
Al14
New member
Nik the Trik said:
It sure looked like a huge screw up by Sweeney. I really think he made a mistake trading Hamilton! And, WTF with the 3 draft picks in a row. Two of them seemed brutal to me.
Time will tell, I guess.
As for Bozak, a 2nd rounder in this year's draft would have been golden. Too bad he wasn't traded for one.
Boston traded away Thorton many years ago and he's had a stellar career surrounded by a superior cast yet he's never won a cup, why?
Offensively Roberio has had a great career but is he/was he the type of player you could build a winner around, I think the answer is obvious.
If TO wishes to win it all it's essential that the right players play for TO not just any player that can score.
Who's more valuable Bergeron or Thornton, on the surface it would appear to be Thorton the points machine but if I was building a winner in both the regular season and playoffs, I would prefer Bergeron. Point producers are necessary but there is so much more that goes into a winner than merely points like their impact at all times when on the ice and off and Kadri doesn't fit my on ice conception of what I want from a winning player. There's obviously a problem with his off ice demeanor so often teams benefit from addition by subtraction, Kadri isn't bigger than the team and if he doesn't fit in towards a better team then he's a player that when removed will enable the Leafs to progress.
Hamilton is considered a cancer in the room, very unpopular amongst his team mates, Seguin had a similar reputation so I think Boston and it's players are happy to be rid of them, a gutsy move but probably necessary.
TO holds on to the most suspect players, any signs of success and TO will overpay and overterm, not the actions of a winner, obviously. Grabo, Lupul. Bozak and the list goes on, making the easy decisions of rewarding tiny bits of success in a market starving for any sign of success is always initially a popular maneuver but long term it rarely works out.
Shany has made some gutsy moves so far replacing a very bad management and scouting dept. but now the really in the trenches types of decisions need to be made, this team needs to be gutted and I for one think Kadri is one that needs to move on, not overpay/term. I personally don't see him a a future asset especially at his present salary, giving him more would be disastrous but he is serviceable as a 3rd line center but only if he's paid like one.
Bozak is at best, hopefully, a 3rd line center but is being paid like he's a 2nd which he isn't, in the cap world this isn't the path to success. People can and do argue this and that about the team but what should be obvious is that very little about this team is salvageable and holding on to players because of their very insignificant successes isn't proper way to go about building a winner which is what we all want.
There appears to be stats that support the notion that Kadri is/can be a good player and I say great, that makes him a greater trade asset but his salary demands will always mitigate against his value, his true utility.
Offensively Roberio has had a great career but is he/was he the type of player you could build a winner around, I think the answer is obvious.
If TO wishes to win it all it's essential that the right players play for TO not just any player that can score.
Who's more valuable Bergeron or Thornton, on the surface it would appear to be Thorton the points machine but if I was building a winner in both the regular season and playoffs, I would prefer Bergeron. Point producers are necessary but there is so much more that goes into a winner than merely points like their impact at all times when on the ice and off and Kadri doesn't fit my on ice conception of what I want from a winning player. There's obviously a problem with his off ice demeanor so often teams benefit from addition by subtraction, Kadri isn't bigger than the team and if he doesn't fit in towards a better team then he's a player that when removed will enable the Leafs to progress.
Hamilton is considered a cancer in the room, very unpopular amongst his team mates, Seguin had a similar reputation so I think Boston and it's players are happy to be rid of them, a gutsy move but probably necessary.
TO holds on to the most suspect players, any signs of success and TO will overpay and overterm, not the actions of a winner, obviously. Grabo, Lupul. Bozak and the list goes on, making the easy decisions of rewarding tiny bits of success in a market starving for any sign of success is always initially a popular maneuver but long term it rarely works out.
Shany has made some gutsy moves so far replacing a very bad management and scouting dept. but now the really in the trenches types of decisions need to be made, this team needs to be gutted and I for one think Kadri is one that needs to move on, not overpay/term. I personally don't see him a a future asset especially at his present salary, giving him more would be disastrous but he is serviceable as a 3rd line center but only if he's paid like one.
Bozak is at best, hopefully, a 3rd line center but is being paid like he's a 2nd which he isn't, in the cap world this isn't the path to success. People can and do argue this and that about the team but what should be obvious is that very little about this team is salvageable and holding on to players because of their very insignificant successes isn't proper way to go about building a winner which is what we all want.
There appears to be stats that support the notion that Kadri is/can be a good player and I say great, that makes him a greater trade asset but his salary demands will always mitigate against his value, his true utility.
Kin
New member
hobarth said:
Because hockey is a team sport and sometimes good teams fail and great players don't always win cups? What was wrong with Sundin? He never won a cup. Would you not want to build around Sundin?
hobarth said:
So do you just believe as gospel truth everything that's said by anonymous sources in the newspaper? Can you really be that lacking in anything resembling even the most rudimentary skepticism? Or are you just willing to believe anything so long as it furthers whatever nonsense you're pushig?
Nik the Trik said:
You would consider the team Sundin played with in TO equal to the the team that surrounded Thorton then you were obviously a proponent of continually buying fading stars and hoping somehow the mix worked, I don't know what to say but even then the window that TO was successful was quite small. SJ has been an superior team for about 10 years with players of all ages contributing, I think Sundin was a superior player to Thornton and given any kind of proper support he would have lead TO to Cup success.
Do you think that Boston makes the Seguin and Hamilton trades simply because they're idiots, is it not possible to conduct discussions without descending into infantile name calling or childish responses?
If you are a child well then all is forgiven and expected.
Kin
New member
hobarth said:
More or less. The Sharks were never an unstoppable powerhouse and the Leafs during the Quinn years were a pretty good team that weren't just " a collection of fading stars". There were good young players on those teams as well.
hobarth said:
I think they're not a particularly well run organization and I really don't see anything that's happened in Boston since they sort of fluked their way to a cup on the back of a ridiculous Tim Thomas season to contest that.
I think, more to the point, that the reason they made those trades were because they got themselves into cap trouble and then they badmouthed those players on their way out as a means to try to convince gullible people that they had made good moves as opposed to hasty, short-sighted ones. I think "This player wanted to be paid his market value, therefore he's not a team player" is the sort of thing that works on rubes.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
http://twitter.com/HackswithHaggs/status/615895581131730944
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Does it not seem a bit odd that everytime the Bruins trade a young player, it was the kids fault. Thornton? Kessel? Seguin? Hamilton?
And if it was in fact the case, Boston needs to hire a new guy to interview these kids before they're drafted.
And if it was in fact the case, Boston needs to hire a new guy to interview these kids before they're drafted.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Andy007 said:
Seguin and Hamilton were never Leafs so these reports are clearly bunk.
Nik the Trik said:
That was approaching a better response, don't you think, now we have a discussion.
Boston is a perennial powerhouse, a Stanley Cup winner yet their model of team building needs to be excused in spite of their success, I believe goaltenders are considered part of teams so if they're lucky, their luck is pretty consistent, actually I think they're consistency implies more than luck.
Boston does pay their treasured players but are quick to move the players that don't seem to fit their concept of team, they have had an embarrassment of quality players so they can make the hard decisions and continue to succeed, that's good management, the last I heard Hamilton is asking for 9 mil. per and if he ends up as an all star then I guess it's realistic.
The problem I have is that I'm not privy to insider info so you'll have to excuse me if I have to refer to media info in part to formulate my opinions but please since you are obviously in some insider info situation please enlighten us/me, I know I'll appreciate it. However if you simply decide that others are rubes because our opinions don't conform to yours leave out the rubes, it's not necessary.
Boston makes the hard decisions early while those outside of their organization may not be aware of the potential of the players involved and move those players when value is high, sell high a refreshing concept don't you think. Was Grabo one of those players that BB could have moved for a 1st, was Grabo's value any higher, was Grabo's potential able to maintain his value, well hind sight is hind site, I never thought Grabo was a 5 mil. player. Boston makes those hard decisions based on potential and cap constraints, good for them, TO gives them what they ask for and lives with the consequences, takes the easy route.
I'm looking for a far more responsible management from TO that is not geared to today, tomorrow be dammed, cover my as... first last and always now, let's hope Shany has the balls to do that, to consider the future while nurturing the present.
But I'm just a RUBE?
Kin
New member
hobarth said:
That just missed the playoffs.
hobarth said:
There's a difference between referring to media reports and letting them inform your opinion and taking a single, isolated media report based on an anonymous source and then stating it as face. You didn't say "Some people are saying that Hamilton isn't well liked in the dressing room", you said "Hamilton is considered a cancer in the dressing room, unpopular among his teammates" based on one anonymous source.
If you occasionally took the time to listen to what people actually said to you rather than just re-write and restate your original premise, you might actually absorb some of these things.
hobarth said:
Except not many people do think that they sold high on Hamilton or Seguin. Those returns actually look pretty bad right now.
EDIT: especially considering Hamilton signed for nowhere near 9 million. Again, look at media reports with skepticism. Allow room for doubt and uncertainty in your opinions. Don't just believe anything the media tells you like it's the law.
Which again, is all compounded by the fact that nobody is really impressed with what they did this weekend. Find me one person who thinks they made good draft choices. The return on Hamilton sucked. It was barely more than they'd get if he'd been signed to an offer sheet.
hobarth said:
Well, not just.
