Bruins @ Leafs - Oct. 25th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050

[TML fan]

Who's the last coach to win Stanley Cups with different teams?

Probably Bowman.

Correct. And I'm pretty sure you need to go back pretty far to find another.

By my research, Dick Irvin won Cups with Toronto in 1932 and Montreal in 1944, 1946, and 1953.  And Tommy Gorman back-to-back in 1934 and 1935 with the Montreal Maroons and Chicago Black Hawks.  I think that might be it.

Maybe a Stanley Cup on a coach's resume isn't such a good thing, after all...

That's kind of what I was getting at. Maybe it's not such a good idea to keep hiring the usual suspects. Maybe a fresh face would be the better option.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Phaneuf needs to invest in some non-exploding sticks  ???

 

[L K]

Who's the last coach to win Stanley Cups with different teams?

Probably Bowman.

Correct. And I'm pretty sure you need to go back pretty far to find another.

By my research, Dick Irvin won Cups with Toronto in 1932 and Montreal in 1944, 1946, and 1953.  And Tommy Gorman back-to-back in 1934 and 1935 with the Montreal Maroons and Chicago Black Hawks.  I think that might be it.

Maybe a Stanley Cup on a coach's resume isn't such a good thing, after all...

That's kind of what I was getting at. Maybe it's not such a good idea to keep hiring the usual suspects. Maybe a fresh face would be the better option.

It's why I've never understood trumpeting that kind of argument.  I mean if a coach is that their peak in terms of being up on the best trends in the game and is at their most relatable in the lockeroom they aren't reaching free agency unless the organization does something stupid.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It's why I've never understood trumpeting that kind of argument.  I mean if a coach is that their peak in terms of being up on the best trends in the game and is at their most relatable in the lockeroom they aren't reaching free agency unless the organization does something stupid.

But that's not really the case here with Babcock. This has to be the first instance I can remember where it's a coach possibly choosing to leave a team as opposed to getting fired.

 

[Kin]

That's kind of what I was getting at. Maybe it's not such a good idea to keep hiring the usual suspects. Maybe a fresh face would be the better option.

You say "keep hiring the usual suspects" like the Leafs have a long history of hiring guys who won Cups but Carlyle is really the only guy who fits that mold. Before him, they've hired guys like Wilson and Maurice and Quinn who had success, albeit not cups, in other organizations.

The problem with lumping in those guys with the "you shouldn't hire cup winners" theory is that most of the coaches who've won cups recently are guys who had success elsewhere first. Sutter, Quenneville, Julien, Babcock...None of them were "Fresh faces" when they got their current gigs.

 

[ZBBM]

Not understanding your point.  The obvious thing to do was just let him go.  And in this case, the obvious thing was also the right thing.

My point is that the Leafs realistically had one of two legitimate options. Either you fire him, which I might have leaned towards, or you keep him around and give him an extension.

The third option, that you seem to be advocating, is keeping Carlyle but not extending him which is basically saying that you have no faith in the guy you've chosen to coach the team at which point you should probably just fire him.

No, I was advocating for Door #1.

 

[Kin]

No, I was advocating for Door #1.

Fair enough. I suppose I more meant that you seemed to be advocating for bringing him back without an extension over with one where I'm saying that if you're so unsure about him that you'd bring him back without an extension then you might as well just fire him and, so, Door #3 is the worst option.

 

[ZBBM]

Of course, but he could have nixed an extension for Carlyle and told Nonis to find someone else.  Giving RC a 2-year deal after an incompetent season was just asinine.

Letting Nonis fire Carlyle though is almost like giving Nonis a cheat code though. If you let him fire Randy and bring in a new coach, then you need to give that new coach a bit more rope to make a decision on how the team is being run, which possibly buys Nonis an extra year or two.

The only decision Shanahan could have made last offseason was fire both or let them both stay. Their jobs are absolutely 100% linked. And like I said, I can understand why Shanahan maybe wanted some people in the organization that had knowledge of the existing team AND some guys with a fresh perspective, which is why he kept Nonis/Randy but turfed basically everybody else.

Well, to be clear I would have been happy to see both Nonis and Carlyle get the boot at the end of last season.  They, along with Phaneuf and Kessel, are the lingering legacy of Burke, who was absurdly overrated.  Shanahan could have cleaned house up and down the line and nobody would have second-guessed him.

However, having said all that there really is no reason why he couldn't have told Nonis to find another coach.  If the new coach is a disaster, then you get rid of him and the GM if that's what you want.  There is no set amount of time you "have to" give anybody in any position.

 

[ZBBM]

No, I was advocating for Door #1.

Fair enough. I suppose I more meant that you seemed to be advocating for bringing him back without an extension over with one where I'm saying that if you're so unsure about him that you'd bring him back without an extension then you might as well just fire him and, so, Door #3 is the worst option.

OK, I see what you're saying now.  And I agree.

 

[lamajama]

Reading Phaneuf's comment after the game I would have appreciated a mea culpa on the shorthanded goal yet from what I seen no such admission nor comment at all. "compete level..."....where is your's Dion?

And believe me when I say I am more supportive of him than many but it's dropping rapidly

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Read from bottom up.

I agree with most of what he is saying.

@Hope_Smoke  ?  7m 7 minutes ago
I would reserve judgment on a lot of Leaf players until you see how they perform with someone else behind the bench.

Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke  ?  8m 8 minutes ago
Not like sports fans haven't seen the movie of a team giving up on their coach. If you haven't, it looks like what the Leafs have been doing

@Hope_Smoke  ?  15m 15 minutes ago
Also, if you want to blame those players, keep in mind the Leafs were flat (again) last night despite paying over $9 mill for an energy line

@Hope_Smoke  ?  17m 17 minutes ago
Can sit there & blame Dion, Kessel, Gardiner or Kadri all you want, but players are flat out not good enough & aren't playing for the coach

@Hope_Smoke  ?  18m 18 minutes ago
If your head coach can't get players to play hard/maximize effort it's time to go. Whether it's deserved or not. Players aren't responding

@Hope_Smoke  ?  20m 20 minutes ago
In the end, we can talk about effort level or compete all we want. Been obvious for over a year the head coach can't motivate the team.

@Hope_Smoke  ?  20m 20 minutes ago
Entire Leafs team needs to be held accountable. Other than the season opener I think Morgan Rielly has been ineffective this year.

@Hope_Smoke  ?  21m 21 minutes ago
No doubt that the effort by Gardiner was bad on the 2 third period goals last night. Definitely deserves to be held accountable.

 

[moon111]

For my measly pay-cheque, I try to perform despite sometimes having a boss I don't like.  These players are getting paid to put up with anything the coach tells them whether they like it or not.  This isn't the era of teams having enough talent and offence to over-whelm defensive teams.  Expansion has diluted the NHL to the point that these players have to put defence first, and in Toronto they never do.

 

[Zee]

Who is "Hope Smoke"?

 

[hap_leaf]

For my measly pay-cheque, I try to perform despite sometimes having a boss I don't like.  These players are getting paid to put up with anything the coach tells them whether they like it or not.  This isn't the era of teams having enough talent and offence to over-whelm defensive teams.  Expansion has diluted the NHL to the point that these players have to put defence first, and in Toronto they never do.

Great point moon, and I wonder how much is also due to the league's rightful investigations on hits to the head.  Also, the ensuing change to icing rules to prevent injury.  Are the players playing as hard as they used to?  Where are the thunderous bodychecks?  It seems to me a lot of the emotion has been sapped from the play level in general.  That was one lack luster game last night.  Even Lucic was invisible.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Who is "Hope Smoke"?

A Toronto blogger, provides good recaps of media goings on regarding Toronto sports teams.

I quoted him not because of who he is, I quoted him because he articulated pretty much what I think regarding the team right now.

 

[Highlander]

It seems Randy has lost this team a long time ago, time for something new?why wait for more of the same?

 

[L K]

Honestly, the only changes I expect to see are Gardiner sits, Frattin comes back in and the same revolving door of "accountability" from Randy.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Phaneuf and Gardiner were brutal last night and the rest of the team weren't far off.

 

[Kessel Run]

What would it take for Randy to get fired though? It's long overdue.

One month? Two months? The trade deadline and hold out for Babcock?

 

[2badknees]

I sometimes wonder what the team would look like if Burke was retained. I look at the mess that Calgary was, and he's given them identity and development.