Canadiens @ Leafs - Feb. 13th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590

[Bender]

I know points aren't everything, but:

Marner:	15GP	7G	15A	22P
Matthews:	14GP	11G	6A	17P
Tavares:	15GP	5G	9A	14P
Nylander:	15GP	4G	8A	12P

What the hell else do you expect? The "big 4" are top 4 in points on the team.

Why do you expect rational argument from resident Don Cherry?

 

[wnc096]

I know points aren't everything, but:

Marner:	15GP	7G	15A	22P
Matthews:	14GP	11G	6A	17P
Tavares:	15GP	5G	9A	14P
Nylander:	15GP	4G	8A	12P

What the hell else do you expect? The "big 4" are top 4 in points on the team.

Why do you expect rational argument from resident Don Cherry?

People act as if they are winning games they should be losing....they are full credit for their record.  I guess for some unless they are putting up video game numbers every night its not good enough

 

[ZBBM]

I know points aren't everything, but:

Marner:	15GP	7G	15A	22P
Matthews:	14GP	11G	6A	17P
Tavares:	15GP	5G	9A	14P
Nylander:	15GP	4G	8A	12P

What the hell else do you expect? The "big 4" are top 4 in points on the team.

The issue isn't their overall point totals. Their issue is at even strength..JT has 8 ESpts in 15games, Willy 7 ESpts in 15games. Take it further, JT has 1 ES goal, Willy, 3...not good enough.
Matthews and Marner are PPG players at even strength.  Leafs need to be a 2 line attack. Right now they're not.

JT and WN have looked pretty ineffective for significant parts of this season, last night it was particularly obvious. OTOH Marner and Matthews have been fantastic. I'd be hesitant to break them up BUT, Matthews and Nylander have worked well before. So it might be worth testing some new combinations. But what are they?

A simple step would be to just switch out Hyman and Mikheyev, perhaps Hyman can provide the spark to get the second line going. If not, then split up the big tandems and try Hyman-Matthews-Nylander and Someone-Tavares-Marner. Who is that someone...I like Mikheyev but he may not be a great fit there. Maybe try Petan or even go back to Vesey, as much as I don't like him he might be a better fit than Mikheyev.

I don't know what is going on but JT just doesn't appear right to me. He looks slower than usual with everything - skating, shooting, puck handling. Maybe he's just focusing too much on playing defensively. And Nylander seems to have regressed into an even less engaged state than usual. Sure, he manages to steal a few pucks each game but mostly avoids physical battles and tend to lose them when he engages.

Tavares is back in New Dad mode.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

One loss and people are ready to blow it up. I love leaf fans.

 

[azzurri63]

I know points aren't everything, but:

Marner:	15GP	7G	15A	22P
Matthews:	14GP	11G	6A	17P
Tavares:	15GP	5G	9A	14P
Nylander:	15GP	4G	8A	12P

What the hell else do you expect? The "big 4" are top 4 in points on the team.

The issue isn't their overall point totals. Their issue is at even strength..JT has 8 ESpts in 15games, Willy 7 ESpts in 15games. Take it further, JT has 1 ES goal, Willy, 3...not good enough.
Matthews and Marner are PPG players at even strength.  Leafs need to be a 2 line attack. Right now they're not.

Thank you

 

[azzurri63]

I know points aren't everything, but:

Marner:	15GP	7G	15A	22P
Matthews:	14GP	11G	6A	17P
Tavares:	15GP	5G	9A	14P
Nylander:	15GP	4G	8A	12P

What the hell else do you expect? The "big 4" are top 4 in points on the team.

Why do you expect rational argument from resident Don Cherry?

Bender I thought you ignored all my posts. I'm glad you didn't.

 

[azzurri63]

I know points aren't everything, but:

Marner:	15GP	7G	15A	22P
Matthews:	14GP	11G	6A	17P
Tavares:	15GP	5G	9A	14P
Nylander:	15GP	4G	8A	12P

What the hell else do you expect? The "big 4" are top 4 in points on the team.

The issue isn't their overall point totals. Their issue is at even strength..JT has 8 ESpts in 15games, Willy 7 ESpts in 15games. Take it further, JT has 1 ES goal, Willy, 3...not good enough.
Matthews and Marner are PPG players at even strength.  Leafs need to be a 2 line attack. Right now they're not.

JT and WN have looked pretty ineffective for significant parts of this season, last night it was particularly obvious. OTOH Marner and Matthews have been fantastic. I'd be hesitant to break them up BUT, Matthews and Nylander have worked well before. So it might be worth testing some new combinations. But what are they?

A simple step would be to just switch out Hyman and Mikheyev, perhaps Hyman can provide the spark to get the second line going. If not, then split up the big tandems and try Hyman-Matthews-Nylander and Someone-Tavares-Marner. Who is that someone...I like Mikheyev but he may not be a great fit there. Maybe try Petan or even go back to Vesey, as much as I don't like him he might be a better fit than Mikheyev.

I don't know what is going on but JT just doesn't appear right to me. He looks slower than usual with everything - skating, shooting, puck handling. Maybe he's just focusing too much on playing defensively. And Nylander seems to have regressed into an even less engaged state than usual. Sure, he manages to steal a few pucks each game but mostly avoids physical battles and tend to lose them when he engages.

Tavares is back in New Dad mode.

Maybe some are happy with the point totals. My concern is the compete level. Nylander looks like he's disengaged. I understand it's his style of play that looks that way but he needs to get involved more. We've been saying this since his 1st year. I would love to record a whole game and pick out spots where he avoids contact thus not gaining possession. In regards to the stats he had a 2 goal one assist night against the Habs on opening night. Since then 2 goals. You guys happy with that? I wouldn't be if I was management. This from your 4th highest paid player who has exceptional talent. If you take away his 3 assist night against the lowly Canucks he has 2 goals no assists over the last 8 games.

 

[azzurri63]

Well Jumbo Joe back on the top line tomorrow and Hyman moving down to the second. Let's hope that sparks JT's line.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Well Jumbo Joe back on the top line tomorrow and Hyman moving down to the second. Let's hope that sparks JT's line.

Let's hope, we need them too.

 

[Kin]

I think that what management understands, which predictably some of the lunatics on the board never seem to, is that all good players have peaks and valleys in their performance and that there's really nothing constructive about getting emotional about them unless they think something is fundamentally different about their game.

 

[Chris]

I know points aren't everything, but:

Marner:	15GP	7G	15A	22P
Matthews:	14GP	11G	6A	17P
Tavares:	15GP	5G	9A	14P
Nylander:	15GP	4G	8A	12P

What the hell else do you expect? The "big 4" are top 4 in points on the team.

The issue isn't their overall point totals. Their issue is at even strength..JT has 8 ESpts in 15games, Willy 7 ESpts in 15games. Take it further, JT has 1 ES goal, Willy, 3...not good enough.
Matthews and Marner are PPG players at even strength.  Leafs need to be a 2 line attack. Right now they're not.

JT and WN have looked pretty ineffective for significant parts of this season, last night it was particularly obvious. OTOH Marner and Matthews have been fantastic. I'd be hesitant to break them up BUT, Matthews and Nylander have worked well before. So it might be worth testing some new combinations. But what are they?

A simple step would be to just switch out Hyman and Mikheyev, perhaps Hyman can provide the spark to get the second line going. If not, then split up the big tandems and try Hyman-Matthews-Nylander and Someone-Tavares-Marner. Who is that someone...I like Mikheyev but he may not be a great fit there. Maybe try Petan or even go back to Vesey, as much as I don't like him he might be a better fit than Mikheyev.

I don't know what is going on but JT just doesn't appear right to me. He looks slower than usual with everything - skating, shooting, puck handling. Maybe he's just focusing too much on playing defensively. And Nylander seems to have regressed into an even less engaged state than usual. Sure, he manages to steal a few pucks each game but mostly avoids physical battles and tend to lose them when he engages.

Tavares is back in New Dad mode.

Yeah, sure. For $11 million a year, you figure out how to get out of "New Dad mode."

 

[Bullfrog]

The issue isn't their overall point totals. Their issue is at even strength..JT has 8 ESpts in 15games, Willy 7 ESpts in 15games. Take it further, JT has 1 ES goal, Willy, 3...not good enough.
Matthews and Marner are PPG players at even strength.  Leafs need to be a 2 line attack. Right now they're not.

Firstly, scoring 0.5 even-strength points per game isn't exactly terrible. 8 EVP puts Tavares tied for 44th in the league. Do we expect our $11M centre to do better? Sure; but it's not like he's totally mailing it in.

Secondly, why do we NEED a 2-line attack if the two superstars are getting it done? This is an aside to the point that it's ridiculous to suggest we don't have a two-line attack. Tavares/Nylander are in a slight lull; they're still dangerous when they're on the ice and the opposition knows it.

 

[Bullfrog]

Maybe some are happy with the point totals. My concern is the compete level. Nylander looks like he's disengaged. I understand it's his style of play that looks that way but he needs to get involved more. We've been saying this since his 1st year. I would love to record a whole game and pick out spots where he avoids contact thus not gaining possession. In regards to the stats he had a 2 goal one assist night against the Habs on opening night. Since then 2 goals. You guys happy with that? I wouldn't be if I was management.

So, I'm confused. Does his style-of-play make it look like he's not competing or is he not competing? he needs to get involved more? By taking and giving hits and then getting injured or taking himself out of the play?

While you're recording his egregious contact-avoiding instances, make sure you also record his takeaways, his zone exits, his clean passes, zone entries, proper gap and lane obstruction, etc. I mean, just for kicks and giggles.

This from your 4th highest paid player who has exceptional talent. If you take away his 3 assist night against the lowly Canucks he has 2 goals no assists over the last 8 games.

So, if you take away his points, he doesn't have points? That's illuminating stuff right there.

 

[Bullfrog]

I know points aren't everything, but:

Marner:	15GP	7G	15A	22P
Matthews:	14GP	11G	6A	17P
Tavares:	15GP	5G	9A	14P
Nylander:	15GP	4G	8A	12P

What the hell else do you expect? The "big 4" are top 4 in points on the team.

Why do you expect rational argument from resident Don Cherry?

It's like a guilty pleasure.

 

[azzurri63]

Maybe some are happy with the point totals. My concern is the compete level. Nylander looks like he's disengaged. I understand it's his style of play that looks that way but he needs to get involved more. We've been saying this since his 1st year. I would love to record a whole game and pick out spots where he avoids contact thus not gaining possession. In regards to the stats he had a 2 goal one assist night against the Habs on opening night. Since then 2 goals. You guys happy with that? I wouldn't be if I was management.

So, I'm confused. Does his style-of-play make it look like he's not competing or is he not competing? he needs to get involved more? By taking and giving hits and then getting injured or taking himself out of the play?

While you're recording his egregious contact-avoiding instances, make sure you also record his takeaways, his zone exits, his clean passes, zone entries, proper gap and lane obstruction, etc. I mean, just for kicks and giggles.

This from your 4th highest paid player who has exceptional talent. If you take away his 3 assist night against the lowly Canucks he has 2 goals no assists over the last 8 games.

So, if you take away his points, he doesn't have points? That's illuminating stuff right there.

My point is if you take away the 3 assist night against the struggling Canucks his production is absolutely horrible. Too hard for you to figure out. 2 points in 8 games. He?s had 2 3 point games other than that hasn?t produced.

 

[Arn]

So apart from the games he's produced in he hasn't produced. Got it.

 

[Bullfrog]

thank you, Arn. It was just too hard for me to figure out.

If Matthews hadn't scored all those goals, he wouldn't be leading the league in goals.

 

[azzurri63]

thank you, Arn. It was just too hard for me to figure out.

If Matthews hadn't scored all those goals, he wouldn't be leading the league in goals.

Great quote. Clueless.

 

[Chris]

thank you, Arn. It was just too hard for me to figure out.

If Matthews hadn't scored all those goals, he wouldn't be leading the league in goals.

Great quote. Clueless.

It's like a lot of people don't even watch the games.

 

[azzurri63]

Bottom line is the 2nd unit is not producing plain and simple. You've got 18 million dollars tied up into it for Nylander and Tavares so more is expected. Do I hate Willy? No but he just needs to elevate his game and again get engaged more. Two goals in game #1. Two goals in the next 14 games and as I read on another forum he's producing at his rookie pace. It's not just him JT has been average. Montreal as much as I hate them have a tough D and are physical in front of the net. Doesn't bode well for Willy's game. Hopefully he gets it going tonight which I wouldn't be surprised if he does. A 3 game series against Ottawa is maybe what's needed.