Carlyle Extended/Randy's Revenge

[CarltonTheBear]

If Randy were axed, who out there is available to replace him?

Bylsma, Carlton the Bear, etc.

Horachek has head coaching experience if they just wanted to use him as an interim coach for the rest of the year. Guy Boucher would be an interesting candidate although he's in Switzerland right now so I'm not sure if he would be available contractually.

But I think Bylsma is a great coach who will be scooped up by the very first team to fire their coach this season.

 

[Deebo]

Mark Masters ‏@markhmasters  18m18 minutes ago
Shanahan, Nonis are here watching practice alongside Dubas, Fletcher

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If Randy were axed, who out there is available to replace him?

Bylsma, Carlton the Bear, etc.

A broom with a bag over its "head," Deep Blue, whoever is willing to be the Leafs' interim head coach...

Just to continue on those possession numbers and why I think so much of it is coach related, look at players who have left the Leafs who were criticized under Carlyle.  Some are more exemplary than others.

Grabovski - on 50 pt pace; 56.5% FF - last season (WSH): 49% 2 seasons ago: 44.4% (never under 50% w/ Wilson)
Kulemin - on 40 pt pace; 55.1% FF - last season: 41.6%, 2 seasons ago: 41.5% (never under 50% FF w/ Wilson)
MacArthur - 55 pts last season, on 62 pt pace; 42.9 % FF - last season (OTT): 53.1%, 2 seasons ago: 48.2% (48% lowest under Wilson)

I don't have time, but Gunnarsson is up to 50.2% from 41% last season.

It won't be true in every single case, but in the case of the first 3 they were integral parts of Leafs teams that performed fairly well and were let down by goaltending, and are performing well elsewhere.  I think there's a trend if you look at that in conjunction with Carlyle's team results possession-wise from Anaheim to Toronto.

I'm not saying that possession issues are the sole reason for their issues, but I think it speaks to a poor system and I think when you have a poor system it makes it very difficult to accurately assess the pieces on the roster.  I think a player like Grabovski is a perfect example of that - was criticized when he played under Carlyle but under Wilson and since leaving the Leafs has performed well.

 

[Joe S.]

Mark Masters ‏@markhmasters  18m18 minutes ago
Shanahan, Nonis are here watching practice alongside Dubas, Fletcher

Fletcher still works for the Leafs? Why?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Mark Masters ‏@markhmasters  18m18 minutes ago
Shanahan, Nonis are here watching practice alongside Dubas, Fletcher

Fletcher still works for the Leafs? Why?

Rest of management really enjoys Werther's.

 

[Joe S.]

 

[ZBBM]

If Randy were axed, who out there is available to replace him?

Bylsma, Carlton the Bear, etc.

Potvin, you like to run the numbers.  Is it easy for you to find out what Florida's possession figures were during the short time Horachek was head coach?

Or are you telling me and my kind to get away from you? 

 

[bustaheims]

I'm not saying that possession issues are the sole reason for their issues, but I think it speaks to a poor system and I think when you have a poor system it makes it very difficult to accurately assess the pieces on the roster.  I think a player like Grabovski is a perfect example of that - was criticized when he played under Carlyle but under Wilson and since leaving the Leafs has performed well.

That's where I'm at with things, too. The first thing that needs to be fixed is the most obvious problem - the systems in place are failing miserably and compounding the issues around the team. Hard to assess other problems accurately right now. Right now, major roster changes could too easily be done in a way that would make things worse long-term.

 

[bustaheims]

67sound: In light of the obsession with character, interesting to hear @JeffMarek on MvsW the other day paraphrasing Scotty Bowman. 1/2

67sound: Basically, ?let guys who are good in the room stay in the room. I want guys who are good on the ice.? But what does Bowman know anyway. 2/2

Talent first, always and forever.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If Randy were axed, who out there is available to replace him?

Bylsma, Carlton the Bear, etc.

Potvin, you like to run the numbers.  Is it easy for you to find out what Florida's possession figures were during the short time Horachek was head coach?

Or are you telling me and my kind to get away from you? 

Horachek was hired November 8, 2013 and fired April 29, 2014 (66 games).  During that period of time the Panthers' FF% was 51%, good for 12th in the league over that stretch.  Prior to his hire they were at about 49% for the season and 48% the season before.

It's not the be all end all, and Dineen seemed to have some success the season before the lockout-shortened one, but there was some improvement in that metric with Horachek.

Even current Leafs staff members like him: http://theleafsnation.com/2014/7/14/the-leafs-made-a-hire-i-liked-crazy-i-know

 

[ZBBM]

If Randy were axed, who out there is available to replace him?

Bylsma, Carlton the Bear, etc.

Potvin, you like to run the numbers.  Is it easy for you to find out what Florida's possession figures were during the short time Horachek was head coach?

Or are you telling me and my kind to get away from you? 

Horachek was hired November 8, 2013 and fired April 29, 2014 (66 games).  During that period of time the Panthers' FF% was 51%, good for 12th in the league over that stretch.  Prior to his hire they were at about 49% for the season and 48% the season before.

It's not the be all end all, and Dineen seemed to have some success the season before the lockout-shortened one, but there was some improvement in that metric with Horachek.

Even current Leafs staff members like him: http://theleafsnation.com/2014/7/14/the-leafs-made-a-hire-i-liked-crazy-i-know

Thanks man.  Appreciate your effort.  This reinforces my wish to see them make him interim, starting, oh, say, this afternoon.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/mirtle-randy-carlyle-under-fire-as-leafs-hit-skids-again/article21647019/?service=mobile&cmpid=rss1&click=dlvr.it

Someone make the Leafs front office read this please.

 

[bustaheims]

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/mirtle-randy-carlyle-under-fire-as-leafs-hit-skids-again/article21647019/?service=mobile&cmpid=rss1&click=dlvr.it

Someone make the Leafs front office read this please.

I'm confident everyone not named Dave Nonis gets it, though, I'm on the fence with Shanny right now. I wonder if maybe he didn't want to make the seemingly "knee-jerk" move right after he was hired, and really just wanted to give Carlyle and Nonis just enough rope to hang themselves this season. I don't think he really had any expectations for this to be anything more than a transitional season played by a mediocre team with an out of date coach.

 

[L K]

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/mirtle-randy-carlyle-under-fire-as-leafs-hit-skids-again/article21647019/?service=mobile&cmpid=rss1&click=dlvr.it

Someone make the Leafs front office read this please.

I'm confident everyone not named Dave Nonis gets it, though, I'm on the fence with Shanny right now. I wonder if maybe he didn't want to make the seemingly "knee-jerk" move right after he was hired, and really just wanted to give Carlyle and Nonis just enough rope to hang themselves this season. I don't think he really had any expectations for this to be anything more than a transitional season played by a mediocre team with an out of date coach.

I can somewhat understand it, but if Shanahan needs more time to assess that this team isn't good, he has a hole in his head.  I refuse to believe that any competent GM/President hasn't had meetings with his analytical staff to pore over the data from his 167 games as coach of the Leafs.  I refuse to believe that they would stick with a coach who puts the team firmly in "not a playoff calibre team but not a bottom 5 team either" territory and do nothing to change that.

I'm honestly dumbfounded that they didn't fire him after that Nashville game.  That was the direct followup to the Buffalo beatdown.  Disgusting.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm honestly dumbfounded that they didn't fire him after that Nashville game.  That was the direct followup to the Buffalo beatdown.  Disgusting.

That I actually understand more than not firing him in the summer. You don't want to appear to have overreacted to a pair of dismal outcomes (even though those of us that are in the know know better). The next set of games is tough, and a new coach isn't going to turn things around instantly. I wouldn't be surprised if they've made the decision to give Carlyle another 4 or 5 games to give it his last shot at changing, and, if not, they'll hopefully let him go. I said earlier in the season that I didn't expect Carlyle to get let go before December unless the Leafs had absolutely no success, and, they're still on track for that. In fact, if anything, they have even more ammunition for it now, and could very well have all they need in the next week or so. The way the team is playing, they're heading down a long losing streak against some tough teams. There's no middle of the pack opponent to turn things around against until Washington.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If they're going to fire him (soon) waiting until after the Detroit game makes a bit of sense. They have 3 days off and just 1 game in 6 days. Would give the new coach or Horachek or whoever some time to do his thing.

 

[Bullfrog]

That I actually understand more than not firing him in the summer. You don't want to appear to have overreacted to a pair of dismal outcomes (even though those of us that are in the know know better)...

To whom would you appear to be over-reacting? I'm sure "those in the know" understand this is a long time coming. If anything, standing by and not doing anything is making the upper management look worse.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm honestly dumbfounded that they didn't fire him after that Nashville game.  That was the direct followup to the Buffalo beatdown.  Disgusting.

That I actually understand more than not firing him in the summer. You don't want to appear to have overreacted to a pair of dismal outcomes (even though those of us that are in the know know better). The next set of games is tough, and a new coach isn't going to turn things around instantly. I wouldn't be surprised if they've made the decision to give Carlyle another 4 or 5 games to give it his last shot at changing, and, if not, they'll hopefully let him go. I said earlier in the season that I didn't expect Carlyle to get let go before December unless the Leafs had absolutely no success, and, they're still on track for that. In fact, if anything, they have even more ammunition for it now, and could very well have all they need in the next week or so. The way the team is playing, they're heading down a long losing streak against some tough teams. There's no middle of the pack opponent to turn things around against until Washington.

I'm following you here but objectively there's no way Carlyle should be given 4 or 5 more games as a last chance. That guy is the very definition of someone who is not going to change.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm following you here but objectively there's no way Carlyle should be given 4 or 5 more games as a last chance. That guy is the very definition of someone who is not going to change.

I agree, but, it gives the brass an opportunity to really evaluate their options (since, really, they probably haven't done so too seriously yet) and even interview potential replacements if they don't want to go the interim route.

 

[Stickytape]

There is almost nothing that could possibly happen in just 4-5 games that could wash the stink off the last year's worth of hockey.  I literally could not imagine scores over the next five games that would fill me with confidence going forward after that.

Carlyle has been out of tricks for at least a year now. I don't think anything short of literal, actual magic is going to change that now.