Compete level!

[freer]

As was stated several times in the GDT, you can't draw a single valid conclusion about the Leafs' play from last night's game, other than they managed to beat a club that looked like it belongs in the ECHL.

That. Although, the game reaffirms that if Kessel is given space, he makes any player on his line start looking worth his contract.

I think tougher linemates would make kessel more consistently effective against tighter checking teams. I'd really like to see (don't laugh) Komorov on his line, along with Santorelli, who's completely outplayed Kadri, imo.

maybe outplayed but neither has any finish at all.

 

[herman]

As was stated several times in the GDT, you can't draw a single valid conclusion about the Leafs' play from last night's game, other than they managed to beat a club that looked like it belongs in the ECHL.

That. Although, the game reaffirms that if Kessel is given space, he makes any player on his line start looking worth his contract.

I think tougher linemates would make kessel more consistently effective against tighter checking teams. I'd really like to see (don't laugh) Komorov on his line, along with Santorelli, who's completely outplayed Kadri, imo.

That's what this thread is all about. Top teams don't give space on defense and make their own space on offense. Maybe Kessel needs to be used on a line that's deployed like a scalpel in very sheltered minutes (similar to Kadri's first full season) instead of head to head against the other top lines.

 

[bustaheims]

That's what this thread is all about. Top teams don't give space on defense and make their own space on offense. Maybe Kessel needs to be used on a line that's deployed like a scalpel in very sheltered minutes (similar to Kadri's first full season) instead of head to head against the other top lines.

Going head to head against the other team's best, over the last 3+ years, Kessel has been one of the top offensive producers in the NHL. 3 consecutive seasons in the top 8 in the league in terms of points. 2 of those 3 seasons, in the top 7 for goals. He does not need to be sheltered.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

As was stated several times in the GDT, you can't draw a single valid conclusion about the Leafs' play from last night's game, other than they managed to beat a club that looked like it belongs in the ECHL.

That. Although, the game reaffirms that if Kessel is given space, he makes any player on his line start looking worth his contract.

I think tougher linemates would make kessel more consistently effective against tighter checking teams. I'd really like to see (don't laugh) Komorov on his line, along with Santorelli, who's completely outplayed Kadri, imo.

That's what this thread is all about. Top teams don't give space on defense and make their own space on offense. Maybe Kessel needs to be used on a line that's deployed like a scalpel in very sheltered minutes (similar to Kadri's first full season) instead of head to head against the other top lines.

He had 5 points in 4 games vs. Boston last season, 40 in 45 games vs. playoff teams (no idea how that compares league-wide).

 

[herman]

Going head to head against the other team's best, over the last 3+ years, Kessel has been one of the top offensive producers in the NHL. 3 consecutive seasons in the top 8 in the league in terms of points. 2 of those 3 seasons, in the top 7 for goals. He does not need to be sheltered.

I don't disagree with you on the offense side of things. Ideally, I'd like our top players to beat other top players (Crosby, Toews, Bergeron), but we don't have that. Kessel is producing against top lines, but he spends most of his time stuck in his own zone. If he were deployed tactically, where possible, against weaker lines, Lupul/Kadri/Kessel's shortcomings would be diminished and they'd run roughshod over the opponent.

I'm just saying we should lean on our existing strengths. Carlyle is a pretty good line matcher and we have some players who can actually play a possession game in the offensive zone now. Sic Santorelli's line (which has no finish, but can play keep-away) against the other first line and free up some room for our one dimensional line to do its thing.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

As was stated several times in the GDT, you can't draw a single valid conclusion about the Leafs' play from last night's game, other than they managed to beat a club that looked like it belongs in the ECHL.

I felt like last night's game, at least in the early going, was one bad bounce away from going in the wrong direction.  If Buffalo had caught a break I think the crowd would have turned and the team would have slumped.

BTW, can anyone tell me why Panik continues to draw a regular shift while Ashton sits in the press box and Frattin gets 3-4 minutes every few games?  I don't get it.

 

[freer]

As was stated several times in the GDT, you can't draw a single valid conclusion about the Leafs' play from last night's game, other than they managed to beat a club that looked like it belongs in the ECHL.

I felt like last night's game, at least in the early going, was one bad bounce away from going in the wrong direction.  If Buffalo had caught a break I think the crowd would have turned and the team would have slumped.

BTW, can anyone tell me why Panik continues to draw a regular shift while Ashton sits in the press box and Frattin gets 3-4 minutes every few games?  I don't get it.

Because Ashton and Frattin stink that why. Sorry for bluntness.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Because Ashton and Frattin stink that why. Sorry for bluntness.

You've made that conclusion in the 0 minutes Ashton has played this season?

 

[freer]

Because Ashton and Frattin stink that why. Sorry for bluntness.

You've made that conclusion in the 0 minutes Ashton has played this season?

He played 30 game last season, did nothing, IMO does not have the talent to play in the NHL. Frattin has done nothing this season. At least Panik has scored and plays with enthusiasm. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He played 30 game last season, did nothing, IMO does not have the talent to play in the NHL. Frattin has done nothing this season. At least Panik has scored and plays with enthusiasm. 

Without even arguing the "did nothing" comment, if Ashton is on the team right now what he did last season shouldn't matter. Clarkson was able to come into this season with a clean slate after he did nothing last season, and he's looked decent. If the Leafs have no intention of playing Ashton then there's no reason for him to even be on the roster. But having him sit for this long while our 4th line hasn't even established itself is completely pointless.

 

[2badknees]

Without even arguing the "did nothing" comment, if Ashton is on the team right now what he did last season shouldn't matter. Clarkson was able to come into this season with a clean slate after he did nothing last season, and he's looked decent.

Clarkson has a track record of success in the NHL and has earned that benefit of the doubt. Ashton doesn't, and hasn't. Even in the preseason he was underwhelming. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Even in the preseason he was underwhelming.

Was only played in 3 preseason games and averaged 8:00 in those games.

Even in preseason Carlyle wouldn't give him any minutes.  In preseason!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Clarkson has a track record of success in the NHL and has earned that benefit of the doubt. Ashton doesn't, and hasn't. Even in the preseason he was underwhelming. 

Being 7 years older kind of helps Clarkson there. Ashton's body of work in the AHL should be enough to at least give him a fair shot in the NHL before being thrown away.

 

[Highlander]

Between Frattin and Ashton I would rather keep Frattin just to see if at some point he can become the player we think he can be.  Ashton could be a future asset if we can keep him around a bit longer. And we never know when injurys can hit.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Because Ashton and Frattin stink that why. Sorry for bluntness.

You've made that conclusion in the 0 minutes Ashton has played this season?

Yeah, I don't get it.  Panik was picked up on waivers and has been given a pretty good opportunity.  Carlyle says he has better than 4th line skills, but I'm just not seeing anything.  Frattin is big and speedy, and the Leafs gave up an asset to get him, but Carlyle seems to have it out for him.  Ashton has speed and some of the energy we need on most nights, and showed well in the AHL at the end of last year, and has grown roots in the pressbox.  I don't get it.

How can a player ever establish themselves in a situation.  Eventually Ashton, likely drained of confidence, will get into a game after growing roots in the press box, and then be given 3-4 minutes of ice time to prove he belongs.  Good luck with that.

 

[Highlander]

That is why we all love Randy and will send him chocolates on Valentines Day.

 

[brothert]

Because Ashton and Frattin stink that why. Sorry for bluntness.

You've made that conclusion in the 0 minutes Ashton has played this season?

Yeah, I don't get it.  Panik was picked up on waivers and has been given a pretty good opportunity.  Carlyle says he has better than 4th line skills, but I'm just not seeing anything.  Frattin is big and speedy, and the Leafs gave up an asset to get him, but Carlyle seems to have it out for him.  Ashton has speed and some of the energy we need on most nights, and showed well in the AHL at the end of last year, and has grown roots in the pressbox.  I don't get it.

How can a player ever establish themselves in a situation.  Eventually Ashton, likely drained of confidence, will get into a game after growing roots in the press box, and then be given 3-4 minutes of ice time to prove he belongs.  Good luck with that.

See, I'm sitting on the other side of the fence.  Panik has played better than what either of Ashton or Frattin has shown in the preseason.  Frankly, I don't understand why Frattin is with the team at all.  Ashton may be better than Panik in terms of being willing to get his face punched in but Ashton also likes to take stupid penalties.  I would also say that Panik has better stick handling abilities than Ashton and could have more upside in the long term.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Ashton has speed and some of the energy we need on most nights, and showed well in the AHL at the end of last year, and has grown roots in the pressbox.  I don't get it.

What makes it even stranger is that with Spott behind the Leafs bench now he should have a pretty big fan of him within the coaching staff. On multiple occasions last season Spott called Ashton a NHL player. And you'd think given the success Spott had with Holland and Ashton on a line together in the playoffs that the Leafs would want to try that duo out on the 4th line.

 

[Highlander]

Agreed, not to panic but I wouldnt mind seeing Frattin-Holland-Ashton for a few games.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Ashton has speed and some of the energy we need on most nights, and showed well in the AHL at the end of last year, and has grown roots in the pressbox.  I don't get it.

What makes it even stranger is that with Spott behind the Leafs bench now he should have a pretty big fan of him within the coaching staff. On multiple occasions last season Spott called Ashton a NHL player. And you'd think given the success Spott had with Holland and Ashton on a line together in the playoffs that the Leafs would want to try that duo out on the 4th line.

And with the amount of ice-time he's giving the 4th line, you'd think it wouldn't be a big deal to get Ashton at least one of the first 10 games.