Contracts for the Big-3

[Kin]

You may not feel that camp is very important, but obviously every NHL club feels as though it is, and they mandate attendance.  Will it have a bearing on the overall result of season?  Probably not, but it's certainly not the time to still be negotiating.

It seems to happen every year,  more or less, and it doesn't seem as though the players end up being all that negatively affected by it on ice. Beyond that you're just at argumentum ad populum.

 

[herman]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/09/14/kyle-dubas-on-wanting-a-long-term-deal-for-william-nylander-the-whole-time-im-here-until-they-kick-me-out-one-day-william-is-a-part-of-the-group/

This is the first RFA contract with Nylander. When you?re setting a tone for this, is it also setting a tone going forward?

Dubas: I think that?s the way a lot of people look at it. But I look at them all separately. We went through it with a few of our own RFAs who were not as long term or high profile. We went through it with Tavares. I think we just have a way we?re going to have to do this if we?re going to keep this rolling and sustain it in the future. For me, it is not about sending a statement or anything like that. It?s about, ?Here is where we are. Here is what we can do. Here is the logic it?s based in.? We continue to chip away at it. That?s the way I always look at it.

I know that because this is my first time in this chair, people use that tactic to look at it and say it?s him proving himself or sending a message, but it?s not really the way that I have approached it. William is a key piece for us and we want to have the best solution possible for everybody. That?s really our goal.

I've felt pretty stress-free about this particular negotiation.

 

[Zee]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/09/14/kyle-dubas-on-wanting-a-long-term-deal-for-william-nylander-the-whole-time-im-here-until-they-kick-me-out-one-day-william-is-a-part-of-the-group/

This is the first RFA contract with Nylander. When you?re setting a tone for this, is it also setting a tone going forward?

Dubas: I think that?s the way a lot of people look at it. But I look at them all separately. We went through it with a few of our own RFAs who were not as long term or high profile. We went through it with Tavares. I think we just have a way we?re going to have to do this if we?re going to keep this rolling and sustain it in the future. For me, it is not about sending a statement or anything like that. It?s about, ?Here is where we are. Here is what we can do. Here is the logic it?s based in.? We continue to chip away at it. That?s the way I always look at it.

I know that because this is my first time in this chair, people use that tactic to look at it and say it?s him proving himself or sending a message, but it?s not really the way that I have approached it. William is a key piece for us and we want to have the best solution possible for everybody. That?s really our goal.

I've felt pretty stress-free about this particular negotiation.

Good article in the Athletic today by Ian Tulloch showing how recent players who hold out as RFAs end up getting deals which are more team friendly.  The longer this goes, the better it is for the Leafs, if you take recent history as an example.

 

[ZBBM]

Typically, it always ends up

When something always ends a certain way it's not typical -- it's certain.

 

[Kin]

Typically, it always ends up

When something always ends a certain way it's not typical -- it's certain.

The Athletic is re-inventing the way we think about copy editing.

 

[Frank E]

You may not feel that camp is very important, but obviously every NHL club feels as though it is, and they mandate attendance.  Will it have a bearing on the overall result of season?  Probably not, but it's certainly not the time to still be negotiating.

It seems to happen every year,  more or less, and it doesn't seem as though the players end up being all that negatively affected by it on ice. Beyond that you're just at argumentum ad populum.

It happens every year to a few players out of 700 or so, sure, but we're not really discussing the frequency at which it occurs, so I don't know why you've brought that up.  And "doesn't seem" and "all that negatively" isn't convincing me of anything.

I don't think suggesting that players get value out of training camp is argumentum ad populum, but you do you.

 

[Kin]

It happens every year to a few players out of 700 or so, sure, but we're not really discussing the frequency at which it occurs, so I don't know why you've brought that up.  And "doesn't seem" and "all that negatively" isn't convincing me of anything.

Hey, if you have anything, like a single thing, to support your assertion about the importance of camp beyond "teams think it's important so it must be" which is literally the definition of argumentum ad populum then I am all ears.

 

[Fanatic]

"The gap between Toronto and William Nylander sounds wide. The player doesn?t want a bridge deal. Neither Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas nor agent Lewis Gross are talking, but the rumour is the player ask is near Leon Draisaitl territory ($8.5 million AAV). I can see that being true for three reasons."

31 Thoughts

 

[Zee]

"The gap between Toronto and William Nylander sounds wide. The player doesn?t want a bridge deal. Neither Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas nor agent Lewis Gross are talking, but the rumour is the player ask is near Leon Draisaitl territory ($8.5 million AAV). I can see that being true for three reasons."

31 Thoughts

Where are these "bridge deal" rumors coming from?  Dubas himself stated he was trying to do longer term for Nylander (stated just this afternoon on Leafs lunch).  I don't have any reason to not believe him.

 

[Kin]

Where are these "bridge deal" rumors coming from?  Dubas himself stated he was trying to do longer term for Nylander (stated just this afternoon on Leafs lunch).  I don't have any reason to not believe him.

You don't have to not believe him to think this could be true. I'm sure Dubas has tried to sign a longer term deal but rumours of a bridge deal will come up if a contract negotiation with a RFA draws out without a resolution as a compromise.

 

[Frank E]

It happens every year to a few players out of 700 or so, sure, but we're not really discussing the frequency at which it occurs, so I don't know why you've brought that up.  And "doesn't seem" and "all that negatively" isn't convincing me of anything.

Hey, if you have anything, like a single thing, to support your assertion about the importance of camp beyond "teams think it's important so it must be" which is literally the definition of argumentum ad populum then I am all ears.

In all 4 major professional sports in North America, every single team has a training camp.  Every one.  You don't think with a little time I couldn't find some quotes of coaches/teams/players talking about missing camp put someone a little behind the curve?

You sure this is the right hill?

 

[Kin]

In all 4 major professional sports in North America, every single team has a training camp.  Every one.  You don't think with a little time I couldn't find some quotes of coaches/teams/players talking about missing camp put someone a little behind the curve?

You sure this is the right hill?

I think with the right head of steam and some really solid elbow grease you could find all manner of quotes from people within a system expressing opinions of long held conventional wisdom that reinforces that system.

Don't say I don't believe in you.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Typically, it always ends up

When something always ends a certain way it's not typical -- it's certain.

Well, Ian also said that Rasmus Ristolainen's deal was a bad one so its not a certainty.

But his argument there is more that its a bad deal because he got paid for counting stats instead of his overall ability as a d-man.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I think with the right head of steam and some really solid elbow grease you could find all manner of quotes from people within a system expressing opinions of long held conventional wisdom that reinforces that system.

Interesting. Is there any evidence you have at the ready that this conventional wisdom is faulty?

 

[Highlander]

"The gap between Toronto and William Nylander sounds wide. The player doesn?t want a bridge deal. Neither Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas nor agent Lewis Gross are talking, but the rumour is the player ask is near Leon Draisaitl territory ($8.5 million AAV). I can see that being true for three reasons."

31 Thoughts

Where are these "bridge deal" rumors coming from?  Dubas himself stated he was trying to do longer term for Nylander (stated just this afternoon on Leafs lunch).  I don't have any reason to not believe him.

Is Willy being a greedy little Norse piggy?  Hey we all want to maximize our earnings and it is big business. I think he is out of line for 8 or 8.5.  Does he want to be part of what the Leafs are building or not.  I am getting fed up personally. Why can we all settle on 7.25 and move on.

 

[azzurri63]

"The gap between Toronto and William Nylander sounds wide. The player doesn?t want a bridge deal. Neither Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas nor agent Lewis Gross are talking, but the rumour is the player ask is near Leon Draisaitl territory ($8.5 million AAV). I can see that being true for three reasons."

31 Thoughts

Where are these "bridge deal" rumors coming from?  Dubas himself stated he was trying to do longer term for Nylander (stated just this afternoon on Leafs lunch).  I don't have any reason to not believe him.

Is Willy being a greedy little Norse piggy?  Hey we all want to maximize our earnings and it is big business. I think he is out of line for 8 or 8.5.  Does he want to be part of what the Leafs are building or not.  I am getting fed up personally. Why can we all settle on 7.25 and move on.

7.25 is too much. No more than 6.5 is what I think. Let him sit if the numbers are true. Really going to irk me if after signing Tavares we have problems signing any of the youngsters. What gets me and listening to Dubas back in July you think they would have discussed numbers with the big 3 prior to signing John. Whatever to keep all 4 together. If the 3 young guns had any issues then don't even negotiate ship them off. If Tavares supposedly took less money to go to TO due to the Leafs having a great chance to hoist the cup soon why can't the other 3 do the same. Matthews is in a different category as far as talent compared to Mitch and Willy and be hard to trade him but the other 2 if they are going to play hardball ship them off. Hard to take as I love all 3 but if they are greedy after 2 seasons and are asking too much then ship them off.

 

[ZBBM]

"The gap between Toronto and William Nylander sounds wide. The player doesn?t want a bridge deal. Neither Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas nor agent Lewis Gross are talking, but the rumour is the player ask is near Leon Draisaitl territory ($8.5 million AAV). I can see that being true for three reasons."

31 Thoughts

Where are these "bridge deal" rumors coming from?  Dubas himself stated he was trying to do longer term for Nylander (stated just this afternoon on Leafs lunch).  I don't have any reason to not believe him.

Is Willy being a greedy little Norse piggy?  Hey we all want to maximize our earnings and it is big business. I think he is out of line for 8 or 8.5.  Does he want to be part of what the Leafs are building or not.  I am getting fed up personally. Why can we all settle on 7.25 and move on.

7.25 is too much. No more than 6.5 is what I think. Let him sit if the numbers are true. Really going to irk me if after signing Tavares we have problems signing any of the youngsters. What gets me and listening to Dubas back in July you think they would have discussed numbers with the big 3 prior to signing John. Whatever to keep all 4 together. If the 3 young guns had any issues then don't even negotiate ship them off. If Tavares supposedly took less money to go to TO due to the Leafs having a great chance to hoist the cup soon why can't the other 3 do the same. Matthews is in a different category as far as talent compared to Mitch and Willy and be hard to trade him but the other 2 if they are going to play hardball ship them off. Hard to take as I love all 3 but if they are greedy after 2 seasons and are asking too much then ship them off.

So you are willing to ship them off? 

I get your frustration but I hardly think letting any of the 3 go makes a lick of sense.  It certainly would not make JT happy.  Everything will get worked out with Nylander.  I predict the low 7s, Marner there or a bit above.

 

[sickbeast]

Nylander's dad was a known douche and no one wanted to play with him.  He was a selfish player with high contract demands just like this.  The apple doesn't typically fall far from the tree.  That was always the chance the Leafs took in drafting Nylander, though.  Now they will just have to deal with it one way or another.  I say let him sit.  The Leafs have more than enough forward depth.  And if Nylander wants to be a baby I say let him do that.  He's only going to lower his value in the future by doing that plus he's not going to get paid this season.  Dubas holds the hammer and he needs to use it, IMO.  I would play hardball with Nylander.  He has elite talent but he is kind of one dimensional and I would not be surprised in the least if he was a ginormous PITA just like his father.

 

[Kin]

Welcome to Toronto, home of the most loyal fan base around!

 

[Bates]

Shouldn't a loyal fan put the team before the player?  Every dollar overspent on Nylander is one not available for others. I hope Dubas sticks to his guns while he has all of the leverage.

Welcome to Toronto, home of the most loyal fan base around!