Contracts for the Big-3

[CarltonTheBear]

I think a big problem with these negotiations is that there's no guarantee the same principles will apply to Matthews and Marner's talks. And the fact that everybody won't shut up about how expensive those two are going to be probably doesn't help. If Nylander takes one for the team and signs long-term for $6mil how is is going to feel when Marner gets $9-10mil and Matthews $11-12mil next summer?

They would owe it to Nylander not to do that... right?

No?

Hard no.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Sign Nylander to a 1 year deal, lock everybody in a room next summer, no one gets out until they have a deal done.

 

[sickbeast]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/shanahan-questioning-nylanders-desire-maple-leaf/

Didn't some of you give me **** for my comments about Nylander?  Sure, this is open to interpretation but it sure sounds to me as though Shanahan was questioning Nylander's desire to play for the Leafs.  We'll see how this all plays out.  I wonder if they will trade him.  Or if he will sit out.  I hope this doesn't get ugly.  You can say what you will about Nylander but he is *extremely* talented.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If Shanahan legitimately questioned Nylander's desire to play for the Leafs then he'd have been traded by now. No chance they'd even be talking contract.

 

[Kin]

"I have very strong opinions on what it takes to be a Maple Leaf" says guy who was never a Maple Leaf.

 

[BermudaBudsFan]

"I have very strong opinions on what it takes to be a Maple Leaf" says guy who was never a Maple Leaf.

I?m not sure that disentitles him to an opinion.  He is after all the President of the club.  You may not agree with his view but that is an entirely different matter.

 

[Kin]

I?m not sure that disentitles him to an opinion.

I've looked over my post a number of times and I can't for the life of me see where I said anything contrary to that.

 

[cabber24]

So Shanahan didn't have a stellar 03-04. Then the lockout happened and the cap came in. He signs a lower contract because of: age, performance and a salary cap OR for the better good of the team?

He did go from $6.5M to under $3M and had a couple awesome seasons under the lower contract.

 

[BermudaBudsFan]

I?m not sure that disentitles him to an opinion.

I've looked over my post a number of times and I can't for the life of me see where I said anything contrary to that.

How about this then ? the fact that he never played for the team doesn?t determine that his opinion of any less merit, at least to me, considering he is one its present-day builders.  I may have misinterpreted your post, but I thought that is what you were suggesting.  Cheers.

 

[Kin]

How about this then ? the fact that he never played for the team doesn?t determine that his opinion of any less merit, at least to me, considering he is one its present-day builders.

I think it depends on the question of what other opinion it may have less merit than. I wouldn't take his opinion to have less merit than someone else who hadn't been a Maple Leaf but I think I'd rather listen to someone who'd been a Maple Leaf on the subject of being a Maple Leaf.

I'd definitely listen to Shanahan on the subject of being such a good and loyal RFA that you sign an offer sheet with another team though.

 

[Bender]

I think a big problem with these negotiations is that there's no guarantee the same principles will apply to Matthews and Marner's talks. And the fact that everybody won't shut up about how expensive those two are going to be probably doesn't help. If Nylander takes one for the team and signs long-term for $6mil how is is going to feel when Marner gets $9-10mil and Matthews $11-12mil next summer?

On the same token Nylander had his 3yrs to show what he's got. Marner and Matthews get this year and their trajectories are higher than Nylander, so I really have no sympathy if he "feels" like he should get more when in reality he shouldn't be getting much more (if that) than Pastrnak.

 

[BermudaBudsFan]

How about this then ? the fact that he never played for the team doesn?t determine that his opinion of any less merit, at least to me, considering he is one its present-day builders.

I think it depends on the question of what other opinion it may have less merit than. I wouldn't take his opinion to have less merit than someone else who hadn't been a Maple Leaf but I think I'd rather listen to someone who'd been a Maple Leaf on the subject of being a Maple Leaf.

I'd definitely listen to Shanahan on the subject of being such a good and loyal RFA that you sign an offer sheet with another team though.

Well, again, it depends on which Maple Leaf you mean.  Sundin, for example, no.  Someone like, I don?t know, Suglobov, probably not.  Look, I don?t see that his signing an offer sheet with the Blues is terribly relevant to any of this.  He?s management, he?s making a statement he thinks may have an impact.  He may have miscalculated, but I don?t care that he once signed an offer sheet.

 

[Kin]

Well, again, it depends on which Maple Leaf you mean.  Sundin, for example, no.  Someone like, I don?t know, Suglobov, probably not.

I think the tipping point there for me, the amount of time someone needs to have spent with the Leafs to have a better understanding of what it means to be a Leaf than Shanahan, is pretty low.

I'd definitely listen to, say, Kyle Wellwood on the issue.

  Look, I don?t see that his signing an offer sheet with the Blues is terribly relevant to any of this.

I mean, I think it's kind of funny. And I think it's pretty useful to keep in mind that when Shanahan was in the same situation Nylander is in he did what was best for himself rather than the Devils.

Although it did work out fine for the Devils.

 

[BermudaBudsFan]

Well, again, it depends on which Maple Leaf you mean.  Sundin, for example, no.  Someone like, I don?t know, Suglobov, probably not.

I think the tipping point there for me, the amount of time someone needs to have spent with the Leafs to have a better understanding of what it means to be a Leaf than Shanahan, is pretty low.

I'd definitely listen to, say, Kyle Wellwood on the issue.

  Look, I don?t see that his signing an offer sheet with the Blues is terribly relevant to any of this.

I mean, I think it's kind of funny. And I think it's pretty useful to keep in mind that when Shanahan was in the same situation Nylander is in he did what was best for himself rather than the Devils.

Although it did work out fine for the Devils.

It?s a technique he has decided to use.  He makes this statement, Dubas doesn?t have to, and the message is sent. Hypocritical, double standard, whatever, but he?s in management.  No surprise.  So he?s asking him to buy into a discount to keep the team together (at least in his estimation).  He?s simply trying to do a job.  I don?t mind it.

 

[Kin]

It?s a technique he has decided to use.  He makes this statement, Dubas doesn?t have to, and the message is sent. Hypocritical, double standard, whatever, but he?s in management.  No surprise.  So he?s asking him to buy into a discount to keep the team together (at least in his estimation).  He?s simply trying to do a job.  I don?t mind it.

I don't think in this situation you need to choose between thinking he's doing this in the service of his current job and that hypocrisy on this scale impacts the way you, or me in this circumstance, think of him going forward. Especially when he brings up all of the team first sacrificing he supposedly did with the Red Wings. If he brings his past into this as relevant, it's pretty hard to ignore his being maybe the most high profile NHL player of all time to sign elsewhere as an RFA.

 

[Frank E]

It?s a technique he has decided to use.  He makes this statement, Dubas doesn?t have to, and the message is sent. Hypocritical, double standard, whatever, but he?s in management.  No surprise.  So he?s asking him to buy into a discount to keep the team together (at least in his estimation).  He?s simply trying to do a job.  I don?t mind it.

I don't think in this situation you need to choose between thinking he's doing this in the service of his current job and that hypocrisy on this scale impacts the way you, or me in this circumstance, think of him going forward. Especially when he brings up all of the team first sacrificing he supposedly did with the Red Wings. If he brings his past into this as relevant, it's pretty hard to ignore his being maybe the most high profile NHL player of all time to sign elsewhere as an RFA.

Maybe camp Nylander is threatening to sign an offer sheet, so this is Shanahan's response to William..."go ahead, maybe being a Leaf isn't for everyone."

There's usually a motive behind these kinds of statements, and especially from Shanahan, given his standard response would be "Kyle and Nylander's agent are taking care of this, and they'll get it figured out here sooner or later."

 

[Kin]

There's usually a motive behind these kinds of statements, and especially from Shanahan, given his standard response would be "Kyle and Nylander's agent are taking care of this, and they'll get it figured out here sooner or later."

I don't think this is 4-dimensional chess we need to parse here. He's playing to the chuckleheads who think this makes Nylander not a gud enough Leafpro.

 

[Frank E]

There's usually a motive behind these kinds of statements, and especially from Shanahan, given his standard response would be "Kyle and Nylander's agent are taking care of this, and they'll get it figured out here sooner or later."

I don't think this is 4-dimensional chess we need to parse here. He's playing to the chuckleheads who think this makes Nylander not a gud enough Leafpro.

Yeah, I disagree.  Shanahan hasn't done this sort of thing before.  He usually keeps his cards pretty close to his vest.

I think he's responding to something specific the Nylander camp has said.  I especially think so given there's probably been a fair bit of contact over the past 24 hours or so.

Like I said, he could have given the standard answer here, and I don't think there's any benefit to Shanahan, or the Leafs, or to Dubas, to play to the idiots here.

 

[Kin]

Like I said, he could have given the standard answer here, and I don't think there's any benefit to Shanahan, or the Leafs, or to Dubas, to play to the idiots here.

I think you're kidding yourself if you think public pressure isn't a tactic teams frequently try in this situation. Wanting the loudest, dumbest voices out there to respond to everything Nylander does with "HOW COME YOU AREN'T A GOOD TEAM PLAYER" on Twitter definitely falls under that umbrella.

To the extent that it's effective and that means there's a tangible benefit is, I agree, pretty dubious but I'm long past the point of thinking this management team is so perfect that they only do good and smart things.

 

[BermudaBudsFan]

It?s a technique he has decided to use.  He makes this statement, Dubas doesn?t have to, and the message is sent. Hypocritical, double standard, whatever, but he?s in management.  No surprise.  So he?s asking him to buy into a discount to keep the team together (at least in his estimation).  He?s simply trying to do a job.  I don?t mind it.

I don't think in this situation you need to choose between thinking he's doing this in the service of his current job and that hypocrisy on this scale impacts the way you, or me in this circumstance, think of him going forward. Especially when he brings up all of the team first sacrificing he supposedly did with the Red Wings. If he brings his past into this as relevant, it's pretty hard to ignore his being maybe the most high profile NHL player of all time to sign elsewhere as an RFA.

I try not to get sentimental about these sorts of things.  How I view Shanahan in the future isn?t relevant (or how I view him today).  He now sits in a management role and is clearly trying to move things along.  Time will tell whether it was a useful statement, or not, or had no impact.

I like Nylander very much, but despite all of the ?experts? voices out there, we have no solid, confirmed knowledge as this what the state of negotiations are.  I tend not to be pro management or pro player.  We can evaluate the deal (or trade) when it?s done.