Contracts for the Big-3

[Guilt Trip]

Obviously there has to be a limit to what Dubas can accept but at the end of the day, even if we end up signing Nylander, at this point it has to go down as a failure on Dubas' part.  He was the one who put the expectation out there with his comments after signing Tavares.  We just played 30 games without one of our best players and that just simply isn't a good thing.

And how is that a failure on Dubas? I remember an interview where Dubas said he talked to the Big 3 before signing JT and all were good with it so I would think he mentioned money going forward for them. We may never find out what has been offered.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

And we start again, It's only $300K if you assume that's  the only movement there has been. Dubas might have already moved a million and accepted that it would cost his team Gardiner, maybe he is unwilling to go another $500K at the cost of Kapanan. Obviously both just examples as I,  like you have almost no real info.

Barring other moves (like getting out of the Marleau deal or trading Zaitsev) Gardiner is a goner regardless of if Nylander signs for $6mil or $7mil or $8mil.

 

[jdh1]

I guess what I find is a bit of a shame, is that we've got probably the best team since 93, we have a player that is 3rd in the LEAGUE in points, and this has been by far the most popular thread.

I honestly hope they trade him so more focus is on the amazing season they're having.

  And I couldn't agree more with you.

 

[Bates]

And we start again, It's only $300K if you assume that's  the only movement there has been. Dubas might have already moved a million and accepted that it would cost his team Gardiner, maybe he is unwilling to go another $500K at the cost of Kapanan. Obviously both just examples as I,  like you have almost no real info.

Barring other moves (like getting out of the Marleau deal or trading Zaitsev) Gardiner is a goner regardless of if Nylander signs for $6mil or $7mil or $8mil.

Hence the obviously just an example part of my post. But in reality we don't know what Gardiner wants or what he values.

 

[Kin]

And we start again, It's only $300K if you assume that's  the only movement there has been.

No, if the gap is 300k then that's the gap regardless of prior movement.

Dubas might have already moved a million and accepted that it would cost his team Gardiner, maybe he is unwilling to go another $500K at the cost of Kapanan. Obviously both just examples as I,  like you have almost no real info.

For that argument to have any convincing weight, there'd have to be a credible argument for why 500k in this negotiation would reflect the difference in being able to sign a 4 or 5 million per year contract for Kapanen or, in the Gardiner case, a 1 million dollar a year difference would reflect a serious difference in the Leafs being able to sign a 6 or 7 million dollar defenseman. If those numbers actually reflected the difference between signing those players or not, and that's really not the way numbers work, there are other ways to trim that money that doesn't involve not signing Nylander.

Or even signing Nylander and letting him play until any of those decisions have to be made and then trading him. Again, 300k does not reflect the difference between a good and bad contract.

 

[Bates]

And we start again, It's only $300K if you assume that's  the only movement there has been.

No, if the gap is 300k then that's the gap regardless of prior movement.

Dubas might have already moved a million and accepted that it would cost his team Gardiner, maybe he is unwilling to go another $500K at the cost of Kapanan. Obviously both just examples as I,  like you have almost no real info.

For that argument to have any convincing weight, there'd have to be a credible argument for why 500k in this negotiation would reflect the difference in being able to sign a 4 or 5 million per year contract for Kapanen or, in the Gardiner case, a 1 million dollar a year difference would reflect a serious difference in the Leafs being able to sign a 6 or 7 million dollar defenseman. If those numbers actually reflected the difference between signing those players or not, and that's really not the way numbers work, there are other ways to trim that money that doesn't involve not signing Nylander.

Or even signing Nylander and letting him play until any of those decisions have to be made and then trading him. Again, 300k does not reflect the difference between a good and bad contract.

You might be the only guy who thinks previous budget planning and movement don't matter?? Just because they have moved above a comfort level doesn't mean a bit more isn't that important.  And yes the $500K could matter in a $6 million contract if you only have $5.5 Cap space available.

 

[Kin]

And yes the $500K could matter in a $6 million contract if you only have $5.5 Cap space available.

If those numbers actually reflected the difference between signing those players or not, and that's really not the way numbers work, there are other ways to trim that money that doesn't involve not signing Nylander.

 

[Bates]

And yes the $500K could matter in a $6 million contract if you only have $5.5 Cap space available.

If those numbers actually reflected the difference between signing those players or not, and that's really not the way numbers work, there are other ways to trim that money that doesn't involve not signing Nylander.

Providing a possible alternative does not make my assertion incorrect. 

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/jonassiegel/status/1068204941175603200

You know how Babcock considers his words to the media quite carefully?

 

[Bates]

https://twitter.com/jonassiegel/status/1068204941175603200

You know how Babcock considers his words to the media quite carefully?

Putting a little pressure on Dubas? Nylander? Both?

 

[Kin]

Providing a possible alternative does not make my assertion incorrect.

For that argument to have any convincing weight, there'd have to be a credible argument for why 500k in this negotiation would reflect the difference in being able to sign a 4 or 5 million per year contract for Kapanen or, in the Gardiner case, a 1 million dollar a year difference would reflect a serious difference in the Leafs being able to sign a 6 or 7 million dollar defenseman.

Or even signing Nylander and letting him play until any of those decisions have to be made and then trading him. Again, 300k does not reflect the difference between a good and bad contract.

 

[cabber24]

I think he signs no matter what, even if the Leafs have to pay him 7.5M. If we don't like the deal we trade him in the offseason. There is a market for Nylander at 7.5M. I am okay with how this has gone down. $7M gets us the Pasternak cap hit. I am not okay with him not signing.

The band won't all be back next year and I think this could be our best roster especially with the pieces we could add at the trade deadline this year.

 

[Bates]

Providing a possible alternative does not make my assertion incorrect.

For that argument to have any convincing weight, there'd have to be a credible argument for why 500k in this negotiation would reflect the difference in being able to sign a 4 or 5 million per year contract for Kapanen or, in the Gardiner case, a 1 million dollar a year difference would reflect a serious difference in the Leafs being able to sign a 6 or 7 million dollar defenseman.

Or even signing Nylander and letting him play until any of those decisions have to be made and then trading him. Again, 300k does not reflect the difference between a good and bad contract.

I don't recall saying $300K made it a bad deal, just that it alone isn't what isn't getting a deal done. Remember Dubas is also having trade talks so he knows what the  market is right now and based on what Nylander contract. It isn't just $300K no matter how much you want it to be. It's $300K more than some amount the Leaf's might already be uncomfortable at.

 

[Kin]

It isn't just $300K no matter how much you want it to be.

No, if the gap is 300k then that's the gap regardless of prior movement.

 

[Kin]

I think he signs no matter what, even if the Leafs have to pay him 7.5M. If we don't like the deal we trade him in the offseason. There is a market for Nylander at 7.5M. I am okay with how this has gone down. $7M gets us the Pasternak cap hit. I am not okay with him not signing.

The band won't all be back next year and I think this could be our best roster especially with the pieces we could add at the trade deadline this year.

Exactly. Even if the answer is to trade Nylander, it's bananas to do it now when they've got the cap space. Sign him, let him build value, then trade him if the cap situation is unmanageable.

 

[herman]

I think he signs no matter what, even if the Leafs have to pay him 7.5M. If we don't like the deal we trade him in the offseason. There is a market for Nylander at 7.5M. I am okay with how this has gone down. $7M gets us the Pasternak cap hit. I am not okay with him not signing.

The band won't all be back next year and I think this could be our best roster especially with the pieces we could add at the trade deadline this year.

Exactly. Even if the answer is to trade Nylander, it's bananas to do it now when they've got the cap space. Sign him, let him build value, then trade him if the cap situation is unmanageable.

Here's a thought. What if we signed Nylander, and traded other players instead.

 

[Bates]

I mean if this really ends up in a trade with a deal reportedly $300-500k away then I'd be pretty upset with both sides.

I'll be fairly upset with a trade regardless of how far apart they are but the thing that I'd really not understand is regardless of where the gap is, whether Dubas has moved up or Nylander do4wn is that it seems really hard to me to believe that there's a 300-500k gap that could possibly reflect the difference between a good and bad deal to Dubas.

The $300-500K is not the gap between a good or bad deal to Dubas if you don't know whether he considers his last offer with movement a good or bad deal. Not that hard to understand. He might be willing to sign what he considers a bad $6.9 million dollar deal as opposed to his $6.5 OK deal or his $6 million good deal. So really the difference isn't $300K

 

[Kin]

So really the difference isn't $300K

No, if the gap is 300k then that's the gap regardless of prior movement.

 

[Kin]

Here's a thought. What if we signed Nylander, and traded other players instead.

Herm, my dude, you really don't want to hear what I think of your boy Dubas for not just signing Nylander months ago.

 

[herman]

Here's a thought. What if we signed Nylander, and traded other players instead.

Herm, my dude, you really don't want to hear what I think of your boy Dubas for not just signing Nylander months ago.

I have similar thoughts (Willy's my first boy). #8x8