Coyotes @ Leafs - Oct. 26th, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590

[Kin]

I don't know what everyone sees in Holland. I see a guy with a ton of skill who's too afraid to use it.

I think most people see a guy with a ton of skill which, regardless of the frequency with which he uses it, makes him a more intriguing option than 90% of the roster.

 

[Frank E]

I don't know what everyone sees in Holland. I see a guy with a ton of skill who's too afraid to use it.

I think most people see a guy with a ton of skill which, regardless of the frequency with which he uses it, makes him a more intriguing option than 90% of the roster.

I'll disagree on the "ton of skill" part of this comment.

He's turning 25, and as I've mentioned before, he doesn't seem to be showing those flashes of great play that would make me think that he'll be much more than what he is today.

 

[Kin]

I'll disagree on the "ton of skill" part of this comment.

You're right to disagree. Skill can't actually be weighed.

 

[bustaheims]

I think most people see a guy with a ton of skill which, regardless of the frequency with which he uses it, makes him a more intriguing option than 90% of the roster.

This is the key to me. He's much more intriguing than any centre option on the roster not named Kadri, and the only one who may have a future with the team beyond this season. Considering the Leafs aren't going to be contending for anything other than the best odds in the lottery this season, why not give him the opportunity to show what he might be able to provide in an expanded role? All it can do it help the team in the long-run.

 

[Frank E]

I'll disagree on the "ton of skill" part of this comment.

You're right to disagree. Skill can't actually be weighed.

It's too bad really, it would make the draft a whole lot easier to assess.

 

[Frank E]

I think most people see a guy with a ton of skill which, regardless of the frequency with which he uses it, makes him a more intriguing option than 90% of the roster.

This is the key to me. He's much more intriguing than any centre option on the roster not named Kadri, and the only one who may have a future with the team beyond this season. Considering the Leafs aren't going to be contending for anything other than the best odds in the lottery this season, why not give him the opportunity to show what he might be able to provide in an expanded role? All it can do it help the team in the long-run.

I think the problem with this is that Babcock & co. are looking for adherence to a process, and are awarding those that do so with more expanded roles.

Apparently, it seems, Holland isn't cooperating. 

 

[Kin]

I think most people see a guy with a ton of skill which, regardless of the frequency with which he uses it, makes him a more intriguing option than 90% of the roster.

This is the key to me. He's much more intriguing than any centre option on the roster not named Kadri, and the only one who may have a future with the team beyond this season. Considering the Leafs aren't going to be contending for anything other than the best odds in the lottery this season, why not give him the opportunity to show what he might be able to provide in an expanded role? All it can do it help the team in the long-run.

Exactly. I don't think any one projects Holland as an all-star, just as someone who they'd rather see getting opportunities than Bozak or Arcobello.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The thing that hasn't really been mentioned in this is that if the Leafs keep Froese up when Gardiner, Bozak, and Spaling all return it'll mean that somebody will have to go on waivers. We'll have 14 forwards, 8 defencemen, and 2 goalies. Corrado still counts as being on the roster while on his conditioning stint. Say what you will about Holland, but he's a young NHLer on a cheap contract with 137 games under his belt. He'll get grabbed for sure if he goes on waivers. Are we willing to lose him for nothing to play a clear AHLer who is trying hard?

 

[Frank E]

The thing that hasn't really been mentioned in this is that if the Leafs keep Froese up when Gardiner, Bozak, and Spaling all return it'll mean that somebody will have to go on waivers. We'll have 14 forwards, 8 defencemen, and 2 goalies. Corrado still counts as being on the roster while on his conditioning stint. Say what you will about Holland, but he's a young NHLer on a cheap contract with 137 games under his belt. He'll get grabbed for sure if he goes on waivers. Are we willing to lose him for nothing to play a clear AHLer who is trying hard?

That's a good point C.  Arcobello maybe gets waived?

 

[Tigger]

The thing that hasn't really been mentioned in this is that if the Leafs keep Froese up when Gardiner, Bozak, and Spaling all return it'll mean that somebody will have to go on waivers. We'll have 14 forwards, 8 defencemen, and 2 goalies. Corrado still counts as being on the roster while on his conditioning stint. Say what you will about Holland, but he's a young NHLer on a cheap contract with 137 games under his belt. He'll get grabbed for sure if he goes on waivers. Are we willing to lose him for nothing to play a clear AHLer who is trying hard?

No. Arcobello if anyone.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Say what you will about Holland, but he's a young NHLer on a cheap contract with 137 games under his belt. He'll get grabbed for sure if he goes on waivers.

I just realized you could have said the same thing about Panik and he cleared. Didn't realize that he had played so many games at the NHL level (151). Still don't think Holland would get by though.

 

[Tigger]

Say what you will about Holland, but he's a young NHLer on a cheap contract with 137 games under his belt. He'll get grabbed for sure if he goes on waivers.

I just realized you could have said the same thing about Panik and he cleared. Didn't realize that he had played so many games at the NHL level (151). Still don't think Holland would get by though.

Have to wonder now though, injuries and such, Panik might not clear as easily but even then Holland plays the tougher position.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Have to wonder now though, injuries and such, Panik might not clear as easily but even then Holland plays the tougher position.

Yeah, both of those are a part of my thinking in that. Panik cleared on the easiest day to get guys through waivers.

As for Holland's position, this is a slight side track, but I've wondered for a long time now if Holland would be a better winger than centre. I'd play him for a few games there before making any rash decisions. It's not like Grabner, Parenteau, and Boyes have really done anything to solidify roster spots at this point either.

 

[herman]

I think he's just stirring the pot with the internal competition stick. I don't doubt that Babcock is genuinely impressed by Froese, but I think he sees Holland isn't playing to his potential (size and skill-wise) and he's going to chip him in the shoulder and see how he responds.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The thing that hasn't really been mentioned in this is that if the Leafs keep Froese up when Gardiner, Bozak, and Spaling all return it'll mean that somebody will have to go on waivers. We'll have 14 forwards, 8 defencemen, and 2 goalies. Corrado still counts as being on the roster while on his conditioning stint. Say what you will about Holland, but he's a young NHLer on a cheap contract with 137 games under his belt. He'll get grabbed for sure if he goes on waivers. Are we willing to lose him for nothing to play a clear AHLer who is trying hard?

This...doesn't clear anything up.

@mirtle

Leafs send down Byron Froese. Appears they're calling up Casey Bailey.

 

[bustaheims]

This...doesn't clear anything up.

@mirtle

Leafs send down Byron Froese. Appears they're calling up Casey Bailey.

[youtube]QqMVWCoxtDI[/youtube]

 

[CarltonTheBear]

This...doesn't clear anything up.

@mirtle

Leafs send down Byron Froese. Appears they're calling up Casey Bailey.

It's being speculated that this is a cap move. The Leafs haven't put Horton on LTIR reserve, but they may now. It's beneficially to wait until you're as close to the cap ceiling as possible before placing someone on LTIR. And with so many bodies on the roster + IR this is probably the closest the team will be to the cap. Adding a few $100k in the Bailey<>Froese swap just gets them a tad closer.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

@GeneralFanager explains with concrete figures:

General Fanager ‏@generalfanager
Potential LTIR relief for #Leafs w Horton example:
Before Bailey/Froese swap: ~$4.9575M
After: ~$5.295M

Max relief being up against limit.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

But that's....good cap management!

 

[herman]

Under the old regime, we would've waived Holland to keep Clarkson due to cap issues.