Coyotes @ Leafs - Oct. 26th, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590

[bustaheims]

But that's....good cap management!

That can't be right. This is the Leafs we're talking about! What have you done, Pridham?!?

 

[L K]

But that's....good cap management!

That can't be right. This is the Leafs we're talking about! What have you done, Pridham?!?

I'm still expecting the Leafs to somehow have cap overage penalties after this year.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Kadri, JVR and Gardiner can make some real nifty plays, but it feels like Rielly is the first guy since Kessel has left that looks like he can dominate other teams.

It's just flashes right now, but when he decides to take a game by the scruff of the neck, it really gets you out of your seat.

I'm very excited to watch him develop and even more excited that we finally have a few more of those caliber of prospect in the pipeline.

His next contract is going to be interesting. Let's hope for a sweetheart Gardiner type deal.

 

[herman]

Kadri, JVR and Gardiner can make some real nifty plays, but it feels like Rielly is the first guy since Kessel has left that looks like he can dominate other teams.

It's just flashes right now, but when he decides to take a game by the scruff of the neck, it really gets you out of your seat.

I'm very excited to watch him develop and even more excited that we finally have a few more of those caliber of prospect in the pipeline.

His next contract is going to be interesting. Let's hope for a sweetheart Gardiner type deal.

He's starting to take over games the way I saw on his junior games. Still missing an outright finishing move (a la Kessel) but the tools are there. If he even had one person to pass to this year, he'd derail the tank.

 

[Kin]

I'm still expecting the Leafs to somehow have cap overage penalties after this year.

I mean, it is pretty remarkable that this team has to worry about the cap at all.

 

[Tigger]

 

[Tigger]

This...doesn't clear anything up.

@mirtle

Leafs send down Byron Froese. Appears they're calling up Casey Bailey.

It's being speculated that this is a cap move. The Leafs haven't put Horton on LTIR reserve, but they may now. It's beneficially to wait until you're as close to the cap ceiling as possible before placing someone on LTIR. And with so many bodies on the roster + IR this is probably the closest the team will be to the cap. Adding a few $100k in the Bailey<>Froese swap just gets them a tad closer.

I don't know if they can yet...

(d) Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception to the Upper Limit. In the event that a Player on a Club becomes unfit to play (i.e., is injured, ill or disabled and unable to perform his duties as a hockey Player) such that the Club's physician believes, in his or her opinion, that the Player, owing to either an injury or an illness, will be unfit to play for at least (i) twenty-four (24) calendar days and (ii) ten (10) NHL Regular Season games, and such Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additional Player or Players to its Active Roster, and the replacement Player Salary and Bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and exceeding the Upper Limit, solely as, and to the extent and for the duration, set forth below.

Doesn't that put it to Sunday at the earliest? Edit to add, or maybe after the game Saturday?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Doesn't that put it to Sunday at the earliest? Edit to add, or maybe after the game Saturday?

It says if a Club's physician's feels like a player will be out for that amount of time, then he's eligible for LTIR. In other words, when a player is placed on LTIR he has to stay there for 24 days/10 games. Players are often placed on LTIR at the very beginning of seasons (like Pronger/Savard), so they can be put there whenever a team has to or feels like its most beneficial to them.

 

[Tigger]

Ah, right. Then why does it matter whether they do it now or at the start of the season ( from the last half of your post..... edit to add, I get the notion that being tight to the cap is most beneficial, just don't see why every team wouldn't wait for that, not do it at the start of the season no matter..).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Ah, right. Then why does it matter whether they do it now or at the start of the season ( from the last half of your post..... edit to add, I get the notion that being tight to the cap is most beneficial, just don't see why every team wouldn't wait for that, not do it at the start of the season no matter..).

Well most teams do wait until they're as tight to the cap as possible. Some teams do do it at the beginning of the season but you'll see them doing the same type of paper transactions like the Leafs just did to help them get there. I know Detroit was one of the first teams to start doing that, they would send some of their cheaper NHLers who weren't waiver-eligible to the AHL and call up guys with more expensive contracts the day before the season started. Then they'd put a guy on LTIR and reverse those transactions to get back to their actual NHL roster. The Leafs aren't exactly doing anything new here.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Ah, right. Then why does it matter whether they do it now or at the start of the season ( from the last half of your post..... edit to add, I get the notion that being tight to the cap is most beneficial, just don't see why every team wouldn't wait for that, not do it at the start of the season no matter..).

Well most teams do wait until they're as tight to the cap as possible. Some teams do do it at the beginning of the season but you'll see them doing the same type of paper transactions like the Leafs just did to help them get there. I know Detroit was one of the first teams to start doing that, they would send some of their cheaper NHLers who weren't waiver-eligible to the AHL and call up guys with more expensive contracts the day before the season started. Then they'd put a guy on LTIR and reverse those transactions to get back to their actual NHL roster. The Leafs aren't exactly doing anything new here.

I'm sure he and I believe you that's there's a very good reason to do it this way, but I'm sure I'm missing something, as I'm still not clear what that exact reason is.

 

[bustaheims]

Ah, right. Then why does it matter whether they do it now or at the start of the season ( from the last half of your post..... edit to add, I get the notion that being tight to the cap is most beneficial, just don't see why every team wouldn't wait for that, not do it at the start of the season no matter..).

Well most teams do wait until they're as tight to the cap as possible. Some teams do do it at the beginning of the season but you'll see them doing the same type of paper transactions like the Leafs just did to help them get there. I know Detroit was one of the first teams to start doing that, they would send some of their cheaper NHLers who weren't waiver-eligible to the AHL and call up guys with more expensive contracts the day before the season started. Then they'd put a guy on LTIR and reverse those transactions to get back to their actual NHL roster. The Leafs aren't exactly doing anything new here.

I'm sure he and I believe you that's there's a very good reason to do it this way, but I'm sure I'm missing something, as I'm still not clear what that exact reason is.

Trust in the Pridham. He really is an expert in the CBA.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm sure he and I believe you that's there's a very good reason to do it this way, but I'm sure I'm missing something, as I'm still not clear what that exact reason is.

I'm happy to explain in a little more detail, but what exactly is confusing you? Putting him on LTIR now vs. doing it at the beginning of the season?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I'm sure he and I believe you that's there's a very good reason to do it this way, but I'm sure I'm missing something, as I'm still not clear what that exact reason is.

I'm happy to explain in a little more detail, but what exactly is confusing you? Putting him on LTIR now vs. doing it at the beginning of the season?

Yes, I just don't follow what the advantage is of one over the other.

 

[herman]

The way I've been understanding it is that LTIR gives you cap relief based on how close you are to the cap ceiling.

Relief = LTIR Cap hit - (Cap Ceiling - current salary cap hit)

Not sure if the current cap hit is calculated including the LTIR candidate(s).

So timing seems to just be a matter of preference or how much sense it makes to be up against the cap to begin the season vs later on.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Yes, I just don't follow what the advantage is of one over the other.

Ok. The most important thing about LTIR is that it doesn't simply take Horton's contract off the books. It just allows the Leafs to exceed the salary cap by a certain amount. That amount is basically calculated by taking the cap hit of the player and subtracting whatever cap space the team has at the time he's put on LTIR.

So let's just say that the Leafs had $2mil in cap space to start the season. If they placed Horton on LTIR right then they would have been able to exceed the salary cap by $3.3mil for the remainder of the season. But they weren't in a position where they needed that cap space so there really wasn't a point in putting him on LTIR then.

Right now though the Leafs total cap hit is higher. With their injuries they technically have 26 players on their roster. They only have $88,333 in cap space.  This is likely the closest they'll ever be to the salary cap this season. So by putting Horton on LTIR they'll be able to exceed the salary cap for the remainder of the season by basically his entire cap hit instead of just a portion of it.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Yes, I just don't follow what the advantage is of one over the other.

Ok. The most important thing about LTIR is that it doesn't simply take Horton's contract off the books. It just allows the Leafs to exceed the salary cap by a certain amount. That amount is basically calculated by taking the cap hit of the player and subtracting whatever cap space the team has at the time he's put on LTIR.

So let's just say that the Leafs had $2mil in cap space to start the season. If they placed Horton on LTIR right then they would have been able to exceed the salary cap by $3.3mil for the remainder of the season. But they weren't in a position where they needed that cap space so there really wasn't a point in putting him on LTIR then.

Right now though the Leafs total cap hit is higher. With their injuries they technically have 26 players on their roster. They only have $88,333 in cap space.  This is likely the closest they'll ever be to the salary cap this season. So by putting Horton on LTIR they'll be able to exceed the salary cap for the remainder of the season by basically his entire cap hit instead of just a portion of it.

Perfect, got it.  Thanks for taking the time to explain.

 

[L K]

Yes, I just don't follow what the advantage is of one over the other.

Ok. The most important thing about LTIR is that it doesn't simply take Horton's contract off the books. It just allows the Leafs to exceed the salary cap by a certain amount. That amount is basically calculated by taking the cap hit of the player and subtracting whatever cap space the team has at the time he's put on LTIR.

So let's just say that the Leafs had $2mil in cap space to start the season. If they placed Horton on LTIR right then they would have been able to exceed the salary cap by $3.3mil for the remainder of the season. But they weren't in a position where they needed that cap space so there really wasn't a point in putting him on LTIR then.

Right now though the Leafs total cap hit is higher. With their injuries they technically have 26 players on their roster. They only have $88,333 in cap space.  This is likely the closest they'll ever be to the salary cap this season. So by putting Horton on LTIR they'll be able to exceed the salary cap for the remainder of the season by basically his entire cap hit instead of just a portion of it.

It can be in the way of more 2 for 1 kind of deals but there aren't a lot of really enticing contracts to take back as pending UFAs this year for a team looking to create cap flexibility for a playoff run.

 

[Joe S.]

I'm still expecting the Leafs to somehow have cap overage penalties after this year.

I mean, it is pretty remarkable that this team has to worry about the cap at all.

That's what I wanted to ask - how is this garbage team anywhere near the cap?

 

[bustaheims]

I'm still expecting the Leafs to somehow have cap overage penalties after this year.

I mean, it is pretty remarkable that this team has to worry about the cap at all.

That's what I wanted to ask - how is this garbage team anywhere near the cap?

$5.3M for Horton and $3M for Robidas on IR (soon to be LTIR for Horton and possibly Robidas). And over $3M in dead cap space from buyouts and retained salary. So, about $11.5M in dead space right now. With Horton on LTIR, the team will have a little more than $5.3M in overage space available.