David Clarkson

[bustaheims]

Unless there's a can't miss trade or signing that's being held up by his cap hit, it wouldn't make any sense to buy him out after 1 season.

Yeah. Also, the new coach behind the bench next season might find a way to make him useful again.

 

[mc]

Unless there's a can't miss trade or signing that's being held up by his cap hit, it wouldn't make any sense to buy him out after 1 season.

Yeah. Also, the new coach behind the bench next season might find a way to make him useful again.

LOL! So it's a given Randy will be gone come season end? I don't think so. Nonis isn't as trigger happy as some of us would like him to be.

 

[bustaheims]

LOL! So it's a given Randy will be gone come season end? I don't think so. Nonis isn't as trigger happy as some of us would like him to be.

I'd say we're well past the point where firing Carlyle would be considered being trigger happy. Nonis is a smart guy. He knows his new boss won't stand for the way the team has played for long. He has to know that, if he doesn't fire Carlyle this summer, there's a good chance he's on his way out with Carlyle next summer. He's not a guy who likes to make that kind of move in season, but, in the summer, with the way things have played out . . .

 

[avatarx51]

Randy will gone if the leafs miss the playoffs, no question about it just wait and see.

 

[Kin]

LOL! So it's a given Randy will be gone come season end? I don't think so. Nonis isn't as trigger happy as some of us would like him to be.

I'd say we're well past the point where firing Carlyle would be considered being trigger happy. Nonis is a smart guy. He knows his new boss won't stand for the way the team has played for long. He has to know that, if he doesn't fire Carlyle this summer, there's a good chance he's on his way out with Carlyle next summer. He's not a guy who likes to make that kind of move in season, but, in the summer, with the way things have played out . . .

I'm genuinely curious as to what you think you've seen from the current ownership group that suggests that they're going to be particularly impatient when it comes to winning.

 

[louisstamos]

LOL! So it's a given Randy will be gone come season end? I don't think so. Nonis isn't as trigger happy as some of us would like him to be.

I'd say we're well past the point where firing Carlyle would be considered being trigger happy. Nonis is a smart guy. He knows his new boss won't stand for the way the team has played for long. He has to know that, if he doesn't fire Carlyle this summer, there's a good chance he's on his way out with Carlyle next summer. He's not a guy who likes to make that kind of move in season, but, in the summer, with the way things have played out . . .

I'm genuinely curious as to what you think you've seen from the current ownership group that suggests that they're going to be particularly impatient when it comes to winning.

http://o.canada.com/sports/toronto-maple-leafs-new-boss-tim-leiweke-planning-stanley-cup-parade/

 

[lamajama]

LOL! So it's a given Randy will be gone come season end? I don't think so. Nonis isn't as trigger happy as some of us would like him to be.

I'd say we're well past the point where firing Carlyle would be considered being trigger happy. Nonis is a smart guy. He knows his new boss won't stand for the way the team has played for long. He has to know that, if he doesn't fire Carlyle this summer, there's a good chance he's on his way out with Carlyle next summer. He's not a guy who likes to make that kind of move in season, but, in the summer, with the way things have played out . . .

I'm genuinely curious as to what you think you've seen from the current ownership group that suggests that they're going to be particularly impatient when it comes to winning.

http://o.canada.com/sports/toronto-maple-leafs-new-boss-tim-leiweke-planning-stanley-cup-parade/

Game set match... ;D (joking but nicely done...!)

 

[bustaheims]

I'm genuinely curious as to what you think you've seen from the current ownership group that suggests that they're going to be particularly impatient when it comes to winning.

It's less about the new ownership group and more about the new president they hired. The way he talks about things is not the way a guy who's going to sit back and do nothing talks about things.

 

[Kin]

It's less about the new ownership group and more about the new president they hired.

I may have phrased that poorly but being that Leiweke is an employee of the ownership group and doesn't have a defined role with the hockey team I was including him in that.

The way he talks about things is not the way a guy who's going to sit back and do nothing talks about things.

But I think he's also a salesman and I don't think anyone in his position is going to try and sell an image of someone who's going to sit back and do nothing, even if he buys into the Damien Cox sort of "stability at all costs" viewpoint. There's a fair line between doing nothing and firing a coach after his first season missing the playoffs.

 

[bustaheims]

I may have phrased that poorly but being that Leiweke is an employee of the ownership group and doesn't have a defined role with the hockey team I was including him in that.

We've already seen that he's been given the authority to make similar moves with other teams under the MLSE umbrella. He made some pretty swift moves in dealing with the Raptors' front office.

But I think he's also a salesman and I don't think anyone in his position is going to try and sell an image of someone who's going to sit back and do nothing, even if he buys into the Damien Cox sort of "stability at all costs" viewpoint. There's a fair line between doing nothing and firing a coach after his first season missing the playoffs.

There's missing the playoffs and there's leading the team to historic levels of defensive ineptness that played a serious hand in them blowing a 9 point cushion in the month or so of the season. This isn't just a coach that's missed the playoffs. This is a coach that did so in spectacular fashion without being able to show any signs of correcting the massive systemic flaws the team has had all season.

 

[Kin]

We've already seen that he's been given the authority to make similar moves with other teams under the MLSE umbrella. He made some pretty swift moves in dealing with the Raptors' front office.

Yeah, but the Raptors were a well acknowledged mess where "dealing" with them was, I think, assumed to be a major and immediate part of the job for whoever got hired and, even then, I think conventional wisdom might say that firing Colangelo when Leiweike/the organization did might have been a year too late. The Leafs, at least superficially, aren't in a similar situation.

Even then, though, the way Leiweike dealt with the team was fairly conventional. They didn't go out and hire John Hollinger or Daryl Morey or a big analytics guy. They hired the reigning NBA executive of the year and, until the Rudy Gay trade turned the entire team around, seemed to be fully intent on scrapping things down and rebuilding. That speaks more to patience than anything else.

There's missing the playoffs and there's leading the team to historic levels of defensive ineptness that played a serious hand in them blowing a 9 point cushion in the month or so of the season. This isn't just a coach that's missed the playoffs. This is a coach that did so in spectacular fashion without being able to show any signs of correcting the massive systemic flaws the team has had all season.

I think that opinion, though, comes kind of from an internet bubble where things like the historic nature of the Leafs ineptitude defensively are a given. I don't think that in the larger hockey world the Leafs missing the playoffs is going to be seen as spectacular in any way. They weren't a Blackhawks level team that missed the playoffs, they won't miss the playoffs by 40 points. Yeah, the late season fall is dramatic but not historically so.

I appreciate that the "shots against and for are the be all and end all" thing is taking a strong root here but to argue that Leiweke feels that way, or is going to make a decision from that perspective, doesn't hold to what we've seen so far. The Leafs had similar issues in the off-season, they weren't addressed. Nothing changed during the slump earlier in the season. Leiweke has seemed pretty content to let the team operate as it has when if he bought into the analytics that you do there were lots of times and opportunities to make changes accordingly.

 

[wnc096]

We've already seen that he's been given the authority to make similar moves with other teams under the MLSE umbrella. He made some pretty swift moves in dealing with the Raptors' front office.

Yeah, but the Raptors were a well acknowledged mess where "dealing" with them was, I think, assumed to be a major and immediate part of the job for whoever got hired and, even then, I think conventional wisdom might say that firing Colangelo when Leiweike/the organization did might have been a year too late. The Leafs, at least superficially, aren't in a similar situation.

Even then, though, the way Leiweike dealt with the team was fairly conventional. They didn't go out and hire John Hollinger or Daryl Morey or a big analytics guy. They hired the reigning NBA executive of the year and, until the Rudy Gay trade turned the entire team around, seemed to be fully intent on scrapping things down and rebuilding. That speaks more to patience than anything else.

There's missing the playoffs and there's leading the team to historic levels of defensive ineptness that played a serious hand in them blowing a 9 point cushion in the month or so of the season. This isn't just a coach that's missed the playoffs. This is a coach that did so in spectacular fashion without being able to show any signs of correcting the massive systemic flaws the team has had all season.

I think that opinion, though, comes kind of from an internet bubble where things like the historic nature of the Leafs ineptitude defensively are a given. I don't think that in the larger hockey world the Leafs missing the playoffs is going to be seen as spectacular in any way. They weren't a Blackhawks level team that missed the playoffs, they won't miss the playoffs by 40 points. Yeah, the late season fall is dramatic but not historically so.

I appreciate that the "shots against and for are the be all and end all" thing is taking a strong root here but to argue that Leiweke feels that way, or is going to make a decision from that perspective, doesn't hold to what we've seen so far. The Leafs had similar issues in the off-season, they weren't addressed. Nothing changed during the slump earlier in the season. Leiweke has seemed pretty content to let the team operate as it has when if he bought into the analytics that you do there were lots of times and opportunities to make changes accordingly.

I gotta agree with you here....if the leafs miss the playoffs it will be disappointing, but I certainly wouldn't classify it as a historical failure. I looked at Ottawa and Toronto as being pretty even coming into the season....yet Ottawa has been equally as bad over their last 10 games (2-5-3)....their season was a failure but it wouldn't be classified as historic, and neither should the Leafs.  Leafs were supposed to be a playoff bubble team....and they are a playoff bubble team.  Everyone here would agree they were pretty lucky to have a 9 pt cushion.  I will admit they?re timing to go on a losing streak couldn?t  have come at worse part of the season

 

[Brian Glennie]

We've already seen that he's been given the authority to make similar moves with other teams under the MLSE umbrella. He made some pretty swift moves in dealing with the Raptors' front office.

Yeah, but the Raptors were a well acknowledged mess where "dealing" with them was, I think, assumed to be a major and immediate part of the job for whoever got hired and, even then, I think conventional wisdom might say that firing Colangelo when Leiweike/the organization did might have been a year too late. The Leafs, at least superficially, aren't in a similar situation.

Even then, though, the way Leiweike dealt with the team was fairly conventional. They didn't go out and hire John Hollinger or Daryl Morey or a big analytics guy. They hired the reigning NBA executive of the year and, until the Rudy Gay trade turned the entire team around, seemed to be fully intent on scrapping things down and rebuilding. That speaks more to patience than anything else.

There's missing the playoffs and there's leading the team to historic levels of defensive ineptness that played a serious hand in them blowing a 9 point cushion in the month or so of the season. This isn't just a coach that's missed the playoffs. This is a coach that did so in spectacular fashion without being able to show any signs of correcting the massive systemic flaws the team has had all season.

I think that opinion, though, comes kind of from an internet bubble where things like the historic nature of the Leafs ineptitude defensively are a given. I don't think that in the larger hockey world the Leafs missing the playoffs is going to be seen as spectacular in any way. They weren't a Blackhawks level team that missed the playoffs, they won't miss the playoffs by 40 points. Yeah, the late season fall is dramatic but not historically so.

I appreciate that the "shots against and for are the be all and end all" thing is taking a strong root here but to argue that Leiweke feels that way, or is going to make a decision from that perspective, doesn't hold to what we've seen so far. The Leafs had similar issues in the off-season, they weren't addressed. Nothing changed during the slump earlier in the season. Leiweke has seemed pretty content to let the team operate as it has when if he bought into the analytics that you do there were lots of times and opportunities to make changes accordingly.

I gotta agree with you here....if the leafs miss the playoffs it will be disappointing, but I certainly wouldn't classify it as a historical failure. I looked at Ottawa and Toronto as being pretty even coming into the season....yet Ottawa has been equally as bad over their last 10 games (2-5-3)....their season was a failure but it wouldn't be classified as historic, and neither should the Leafs.  Leafs were supposed to be a playoff bubble team....and they are a playoff bubble team.  Everyone here would agree they were pretty lucky to have a 9 pt cushion.  I will admit they?re timing to go on a losing streak couldn?t  have come at worse part of the season

TL;DR

1. Go Leafs Go
2. Win two in a row
3. Lets have some fun this spring

 

[mc]

its more a fan wish than anything else.

edit: and as I fan I want him gone like yesterday but it wont happen. i am sticking to my 'nonis isn't trigger happy' theory.

 

[Leaflifer]

Leafs were supposed to be a playoff bubble team....and they are a playoff bubble team.

I don't buy into this line of thinking. There's no reason to not expect improvement after a 9 year rebuild.

The whole "Settle down Leaf fans, your expectations are too high" thing is getting on my nerves.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The Leafs best bet would probably to buyout Clarkson as much as that would cost them plenty.

Here's a breakdown:

According to capgeek.com, they buyout cap hit would be structured the following way:

* $2.3 million in 2014-15
* $1.54 million in 2015-16
* $42,000 in ?16-17 and ?17-18
* $2.3 million in ?18-19
* $3.7 million in ?19-20
* $1.8 million from ?19-20 through ?25-26

And it would be an enormous amount in real dollars as well. Clarkson or his agent must have seen the buyout possibility coming because in every remaining season, the vast majority of his salary is paid in signing bonus. When a player is bought out, two-thirds of his salary is paid, but 100 percent of his signing bonus is paid. Of the $31.5 million Clarkson is owed over the next six seasons, $24.25 of it is to be paid in signing bonus money. That leaves just $7.25 million that is subject to a buyout, which means it would cost the Leafs a grand total of $29.1 million, plus 12 years or varying cap hits on the books, to buy Clarkson out.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/what-do-the-leafs-do-with-david-clarkson/

 

[Scot4bz]

Those buyout stats are almost as painful a pill to swallow as watching him play.

 

[2badknees]

It seems fairly inevitable that Carlyle will take the hit this offseason, not so much that I think he's as bad a coach as everyone here thinks, but because that's the easiest impact change.

Under a different system, Clarkson may be better. I think Handzus had a terrible first season with LA and rebounded, so its not unprecedented.

If he's truly a washout, I think there were enough teams interested when he was a FA for one of them to take a chance that a change of scenery will resurrect his career.

Not saying the leafs won't have to retain some salary, but talking about a buyout as the only option for the guy is a bit premature.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't follow the CBA so my question is is there a way to incentivize his retirement?  Would that even get his remaining salary off the cap?

 

[bustaheims]

I don't follow the CBA so my question is is there a way to incentivize his retirement?  Would that even get his remaining salary off the cap?

No way to legally incentivize his retirement, no, but, it would get his cap hit off the books completely.