Game 14 - Bruins @ Leafs - Saturday November 5th, 2011 - 19:00 EST - 7-0 L

[azzurri63]

Do us fans ever feel confortable when we are up late in a game? I know I don't because they don't play to protect a lead.

And yet, in 14 games this season, the Leafs have blown a 3rd period lead all of twice - once against Montreal and once against Pittsburgh. Both one goal leads and both times, they went on to win any ways. I'd say they're doing a pretty darn good job of protecting the lead late in the game, if you ask me.

Whether they have held onto the lead or not the point most on here and myself included is they have done it with smoke and mirrors. There are going to be games when we blow a lead etc and games when we win that other teams give up the lead. My point is they are never solid defensively to give you that sense that they are going to nail down the victory. Man they almost blew a 5-0 3rd period lead against Ottawa. I guess that's okay though because we won. Hell I was happy as the rest of you on here but the way they did it was nothing to write home about.

 

[Jalili]

The sheer domination by Boston over Toronto was painful to witness.

What's interesting though is that Montreal, while clearly an inferior team on paper compared to Boston, have actually held their own pretty well against them over the past few years.

And Montreal also seems like the prototypical team of diminutive sized players that would get squashed by Boston.

I'm guessing it's the team's playing style that has something to do with Toronto's failure against Boston.

 

[cw]

The sheer domination by Boston over Toronto was painful to witness.

What's interesting though is that Montreal, while clearly an inferior team on paper compared to Boston, have actually held their own pretty well against them over the past few years.

And Montreal also seems like the prototypical team of diminutive sized players that would get squashed by Boston.

I'm guessing it's the team's playing style that has something to do with Toronto's failure against Boston.

I think the Habs have had some success with a somewhat similar five on five style as this year's Leafs but their special teams have been better. And they've stuck to playing their style trying to draw penalties.

Last night, when I saw Wilson started the 4th line, I got a bad vibe. The Leafs have to play their own speed game - not try to match up with the Bruins more physical defensive game. I think the Leafs would be more successful trying to make those guys skate and draw penalties, etc.

Because the Leafs special teams are not great (mediocre PP and bad PP), they'd have a rougher time than the Habs but I think the score would be considerably closer.

I think the Leafs have to play to their strengths to maximize their competitiveness. They're not versatile enough or deep enough to try to play like a chameleon with various styles.

There is plenty of blame to pass around after such a spanking. Every single Leafs player was a minus. But I think last night started with the coaching.

Having said that, Gunnarsson said they abandoned their style - which is not directly a fault of the coach. And their execution was poor - which again is not directly a fault of the coach.

There's no way Wilson draws up plays that allow Lucic to do what he did (in the wake of Jagr, Greening, etc breakaways - they've given up a ton of breakaways this year). I expected some when they were sending their D in the offensive zone to help the team offence but most of these breakdowns are happening in the neutral zone.

Last year, in the early going, Wilson stifled the offence with an intense effort to fix up the defense. After last night's game, I am concerned about a similar overreaction by Wilson.  He's got to find the optimum balance which to me still allows the waterbugging and run & gun to help keep the scoring going while reducing the blatant  defensive errors but not being the tightest D in the league - because that's where the skill of this roster lies.

 

[Bender]

The record against the Bruins I think people make too much about it. Last season we were 4-2 against them and most good games. kessel's play against his former team is more of a concern. It looked like towards the end of the year he started to put up some points against them which made me believe maybe he was over his troubles against them but looks like he isn't over that hurdle yet. The game last night was just a no show by most of the team if not all and although I was disgusted with the effort it is only one loss. Wilson was right that the team wasn't exploited in previous games as we have been getting outplayed most nights. The one thing I read today that I don't agree with is Dion's comments when asked about the loss and if he addressed the team and I quote "There was nothing to say. We're at where we are in the standings for a reason. But we have to learn from this game and move forward". Almost sounds like Dion thinks we have been dominating teams and outplaying everyone which hasn't been the case.
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What hurdle? I don't think you can even point out Kessel specifically without pointing out everyone else on the team as well.

 

[TML fan]

Kessel plays against the best defenceman in the NHL 99% of the time the Leafs play Boston. This defenceman is known as Zdeno Chara and he's basically a Tyrannosaurus Rex on skates.

Further to that, he also has to find a way to sneak a shot past some guy named Tim Thomas. I think he won the Vezina last year or something?

Why can't Kessel score against Boston? I think it's pretty obvious. Kessel can't beat Chara, and even if he finds a way he still has to beat Thomas. Why is this such a knock on Kessel? A lot of guys can't beat Chara and Kessel isn't anywhere near to being the best player in the NHL, or Robocop. If anything, the knock should be on his linemates who (aside from Lupul) haven't really done anything against Boston either, and don't play directly opposite of a lumbering behemoth.

If the Leafs want to beat Boston, they have to outskate them. They are horribly overmatched physically (by a lot of teams actually: Leafs are kinda soft) and shouldn't even try to play that way. They also need to get production from their 2nd and 3rd lines.  Would it be nice if Kessel could pot some against Boston? Absolutely, but I don't think it's terribly realistic with Chara back there. I find it hard to blame a guy for losing a battle with an angry grizzly bear...

 

[bustaheims]

Kessel plays against the best defenceman in the NHL 99% of the time the Leafs play Boston. This defenceman is known as Zdeno Chara and he's basically a Tyrannosaurus Rex on skates.

Further to that, he also has to find a way to sneak a shot past some guy named Tim Thomas. I think he won the Vezina last year or something?

Yeah. Too many people want to criticize Kessel without being willing to give credit to the opposition. So, I decided to take a look at some other top goal scorers in the East and see how they fare against Boston.

Ovechkin has 12 goals in 24 games against Boston - his 2nd lowest total and 2nd lowest goals/game of any Eastern Conference opponent.

Stamkos has 5 goals in 13 games against Boston - his 4th lowest total and goals/game of any EC opponent.

Jeff Carter had 5 goals in 24 games against Boston before being shipped to Columbus. His 2nd lowest total and 3rd lowest GPG.

Anyone else noticing a trend? Clearly, it's not just Kessel - a number of the league's top goal scorers don't perform particularly well against the Bruins.

 

[Fanatic]

Kessel plays against the best defenceman in the NHL 99% of the time the Leafs play Boston. This defenceman is known as Zdeno Chara and he's basically a Tyrannosaurus Rex on skates.

Further to that, he also has to find a way to sneak a shot past some guy named Tim Thomas. I think he won the Vezina last year or something?

Yeah. Too many people want to criticize Kessel without being willing to give credit to the opposition. So, I decided to take a look at some other top goal scorers in the East and see how they fare against Boston.

Ovechkin has 12 goals in 24 games against Boston - his 2nd lowest total and 2nd lowest goals/game of any Eastern Conference opponent.

Stamkos has 5 goals in 13 games against Boston - his 4th lowest total and goals/game of any EC opponent.

Jeff Carter had 5 goals in 24 games against Boston before being shipped to Columbus. His 2nd lowest total and 3rd lowest GPG.

Anyone else noticing a trend? Clearly, it's not just Kessel - a number of the league's top goal scorers don't perform particularly well against the Bruins.

I am not sure how you retrieve that info so please tell me how Kessel is doing against Boston.

 

[cw]

Kessel plays against the best defenceman in the NHL 99% of the time the Leafs play Boston. This defenceman is known as Zdeno Chara and he's basically a Tyrannosaurus Rex on skates.

Further to that, he also has to find a way to sneak a shot past some guy named Tim Thomas. I think he won the Vezina last year or something?

Yeah. Too many people want to criticize Kessel without being willing to give credit to the opposition. So, I decided to take a look at some other top goal scorers in the East and see how they fare against Boston.

Ovechkin has 12 goals in 24 games against Boston - his 2nd lowest total and 2nd lowest goals/game of any Eastern Conference opponent.

Stamkos has 5 goals in 13 games against Boston - his 4th lowest total and goals/game of any EC opponent.

Jeff Carter had 5 goals in 24 games against Boston before being shipped to Columbus. His 2nd lowest total and 3rd lowest GPG.

Anyone else noticing a trend? Clearly, it's not just Kessel - a number of the league's top goal scorers don't perform particularly well against the Bruins.

Since Kessel came to Toronto, Boston has been the second best defensive club in the league. Nearly every NHL team and nearly every top scorer must have had trouble scoring against them.

When the weak Toronto teams showed up over the last couple of years, a good defensive club like Boston can key on a guy like Kessel making it even tougher for him to score because who else would they key in on?

That's been going on for decades but it's convenient for the papers and media to make a bigger fuss about it than I think it merits.

 

[Corn Flake]

Kessel plays against the best defenceman in the NHL 99% of the time the Leafs play Boston. This defenceman is known as Zdeno Chara and he's basically a Tyrannosaurus Rex on skates.

Further to that, he also has to find a way to sneak a shot past some guy named Tim Thomas. I think he won the Vezina last year or something?

Yeah. Too many people want to criticize Kessel without being willing to give credit to the opposition. So, I decided to take a look at some other top goal scorers in the East and see how they fare against Boston.

Ovechkin has 12 goals in 24 games against Boston - his 2nd lowest total and 2nd lowest goals/game of any Eastern Conference opponent.

Stamkos has 5 goals in 13 games against Boston - his 4th lowest total and goals/game of any EC opponent.

Jeff Carter had 5 goals in 24 games against Boston before being shipped to Columbus. His 2nd lowest total and 3rd lowest GPG.

Anyone else noticing a trend? Clearly, it's not just Kessel - a number of the league's top goal scorers don't perform particularly well against the Bruins.

Wow... always assumed this was a likely trend but those numbers really show it.

Besides that, I don't think its unfair to say that players have certain teams they simply don't deliver against and certainly Boston is one of those teams for Kessel.  The optics of "the trade" unrealistically magnify the situation but in reality its a team he doesn't do well against and the stats you note above suggest it may not just be Kessel crumbling under the hype.

 

[azzurri63]

The record against the Bruins I think people make too much about it. Last season we were 4-2 against them and most good games. kessel's play against his former team is more of a concern. It looked like towards the end of the year he started to put up some points against them which made me believe maybe he was over his troubles against them but looks like he isn't over that hurdle yet. The game last night was just a no show by most of the team if not all and although I was disgusted with the effort it is only one loss. Wilson was right that the team wasn't exploited in previous games as we have been getting outplayed most nights. The one thing I read today that I don't agree with is Dion's comments when asked about the loss and if he addressed the team and I quote "There was nothing to say. We're at where we are in the standings for a reason. But we have to learn from this game and move forward". Almost sounds like Dion thinks we have been dominating teams and outplaying everyone which hasn't been the case.
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What hurdle? I don't think you can even point out Kessel specifically without pointing out everyone else on the team as well.

I wasn't dissing Phil. I am overjoyed with his play this year. What I was insinuating was that he has had his struggles with his former team and it looked like the last couple against them last year he had turned that around. From watching the 2 games this year he was pretty invisible so that's what I meant about the hurdle.

 

[Mack674]

Kessel plays against the best defenceman in the NHL 99% of the time the Leafs play Boston. This defenceman is known as Zdeno Chara and he's basically a Tyrannosaurus Rex on skates.

Further to that, he also has to find a way to sneak a shot past some guy named Tim Thomas. I think he won the Vezina last year or something?

Yeah. Too many people want to criticize Kessel without being willing to give credit to the opposition. So, I decided to take a look at some other top goal scorers in the East and see how they fare against Boston.

Ovechkin has 12 goals in 24 games against Boston - his 2nd lowest total and 2nd lowest goals/game of any Eastern Conference opponent.

Stamkos has 5 goals in 13 games against Boston - his 4th lowest total and goals/game of any EC opponent.

Jeff Carter had 5 goals in 24 games against Boston before being shipped to Columbus. His 2nd lowest total and 3rd lowest GPG.

Anyone else noticing a trend? Clearly, it's not just Kessel - a number of the league's top goal scorers don't perform particularly well against the Bruins.

Wow... always assumed this was a likely trend but those numbers really show it.

Besides that, I don't think its unfair to say that players have certain teams they simply don't deliver against and certainly Boston is one of those teams for Kessel.  The optics of "the trade" unrealistically magnify the situation but in reality its a team he doesn't do well against and the stats you note above suggest it may not just be Kessel crumbling under the hype.

Chara is incredibly hard to get around.