General Leafs Talk v2.0

[CarltonTheBear]

He's become pretty useless imo.  Which is sad considering that epic season, what was it 3 years ago now?  4?  How the heck he potted 30 goals I will never know.

MacArthur and Grabovski both struggled offensively under Carlyle too. And in their first seasons away from him they are both on pace to have career years.

 

[Joe S.]

It's the fact that he gave them both two year deals that killed me.

I'd forgotten that... ugh.

 

[bustaheims]

It's the fact that he gave them both two year deals that killed me.

Yeah, but, at the same time, they both have small enough cap hits that they can be buried in the AHL without impacting the team - and, next season, when Carlyle isn't coaching the team anymore, that's exactly where I expect them to be.

 

[hap_leaf]

Obviously the 30 goals were an aberration, but as a 3d/4th liner I have no issue with him.

At what cost do the Leafs re-sign him though?  Is he worth the $3.5 to 4 million he will likely be seeking/commanding for this type of role?

Well, in my opinion no. I'm not attached to the guy. He's here now and that's fine, but if he walks I'd get over it pretty quickly.

I think he enjoyed his time with Metallurg, better than a point per game over there during the lockout.  Bet he dreams of returning to Russia where he can be a star player.

 

[Corn Flake]

Man, I was just on behindthenet checking every teams' players Corsi's... even the crappy teams like Edmonton and Buffalo... and my goodness do we ever suck in comparison.  Just absolutely amazingly horri-awful.  From what I can gather and have read, this Maple Leafs squad is the worst Corsi team EVER.

The advance stats crew knew this day of reckoning was coming.

Sure if you yell loud enough and long enough abut something like this, eventually you will be right for at  least a sliver of time.

I have arguments with some of the Corsi police when they talk about how the 2009 Maple Leafs had some of the best numbers in the league that year.  Top 2 I think.  Sooooo, there's that little "anomaly".

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I have arguments with some of the Corsi police when they talk about how the 2009 Maple Leafs had some of the best numbers in the league that year.  Top 2 I think.  Sooooo, there's that little "anomaly".

It's not an anomaly when it can easily be explained by having the worst goaltending in the league.

 

[Corn Flake]

I have arguments with some of the Corsi police when they talk about how the 2009 Maple Leafs had some of the best numbers in the league that year.  Top 2 I think.  Sooooo, there's that little "anomaly".

It's not an anomaly when it can easily be explained by having the worst goaltending in the league.

So you put a solid goalie on that team and then what? They would have dominated?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So you put a solid goalie on that team and then what? They would have dominated?

They would have made the playoffs. I'd bet my life on that if I could.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Man, I was just on behindthenet checking every teams' players Corsi's... even the crappy teams like Edmonton and Buffalo... and my goodness do we ever suck in comparison.  Just absolutely amazingly horri-awful.  From what I can gather and have read, this Maple Leafs squad is the worst Corsi team EVER.

The advance stats crew knew this day of reckoning was coming.

Sure if you yell loud enough and long enough abut something like this, eventually you will be right for at  least a sliver of time.

I have arguments with some of the Corsi police when they talk about how the 2009 Maple Leafs had some of the best numbers in the league that year.  Top 2 I think.  Sooooo, there's that little "anomaly".

This again?  Yeah, "SOME" of the best numbers in the league.  They also had some of the worst goaltending in the league.  This has been discussed with you numerous times on here.  NOBODY advocates having a positive "corsi" number as being the only thing a team needs to succeed.  With the 2009 Leafs, the roster was all over the place, a lot of average players and none really at an elite level.  Again with the 2009 Leafs, as has been mentioned every time you bring this up, the team had atrocious goaltending.  Two of their goalies that appeared in 68 games were two of the 10 worst SV% in the league that season, with one being dead last.  Not a single person, not one, who mentions "corsi" would EVER say that you can win with a strong possession team that has below league average goaltending.  I don't know why you keep bringing this up.

I don't mean to sound upset about it, but it's getting ridiculous.  No one advocates for this position you are railing against. 

You would still want your team to play like that team did.  It's PART of building the team, and an important one, but again you can't have a group of Pee Wee players on the ice with a strong corsi and wonder why they lose to an NHL team.  You still need the skill.  You still need the goaltending.

I don't know where this idea comes from that people who want the Leafs to have strong possession numbers believe that it is the only thing a team needs to succeed.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

So you put a solid goalie on that team and then what? They would have dominated?

They would have made the playoffs. I'd bet my life on that if I could.

Put it into perspective how poor Toskala was that season:

He put up a .874 saves percentage with the Toronto Maple Leafs.  This made him the worst goaltender in the league (who had any significant amount of ice time).  Replacement level goaltending had a saves percentage around .908 and Toskala let in nearly 40% more goals than that.  Poor goaltending significantly hurt Toronto?s chances.

http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/psh/comments/torontos_high_team_corsi

 

[Joe S.]

are you guys talking about 08-09 or 09-10? Because honestly both of those years were pretty pathetic. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Think it was 09-10, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong season?

Also, Leafs likely would have made playoffs in 2011-12 with even league average goaltending: http://theleafsnation.com/2012/4/3/with-average-goaltending-the-leafs-would-have-made-the-playoffs

 

[Erndog]

Man, I was just on behindthenet checking every teams' players Corsi's... even the crappy teams like Edmonton and Buffalo... and my goodness do we ever suck in comparison.  Just absolutely amazingly horri-awful.  From what I can gather and have read, this Maple Leafs squad is the worst Corsi team EVER.

The advance stats crew knew this day of reckoning was coming.

Sure if you yell loud enough and long enough abut something like this, eventually you will be right for at  least a sliver of time.

I have arguments with some of the Corsi police when they talk about how the 2009 Maple Leafs had some of the best numbers in the league that year.  Top 2 I think.  Sooooo, there's that little "anomaly".

Have you ever actually looked at the correlation between top teams (lets say those 4 who make the conference finals) and their respective Corsi's?

 

[Joe S.]

So you put a solid goalie on that team and then what? They would have dominated?

They would have made the playoffs. I'd bet my life on that if I could.

Put it into perspective how poor Toskala was that season:

He put up a .874 saves percentage with the Toronto Maple Leafs.  This made him the worst goaltender in the league (who had any significant amount of ice time).  Replacement level goaltending had a saves percentage around .908 and Toskala let in nearly 40% more goals than that.  Poor goaltending significantly hurt Toronto?s chances.

http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/psh/comments/torontos_high_team_corsi

I know it's different eras - but that's close to getting you a Vezina in the 80s.

 

[Erndog]

Man, I was just on behindthenet checking every teams' players Corsi's... even the crappy teams like Edmonton and Buffalo... and my goodness do we ever suck in comparison.  Just absolutely amazingly horri-awful.  From what I can gather and have read, this Maple Leafs squad is the worst Corsi team EVER.

The advance stats crew knew this day of reckoning was coming.

Sure if you yell loud enough and long enough abut something like this, eventually you will be right for at  least a sliver of time.

I have arguments with some of the Corsi police when they talk about how the 2009 Maple Leafs had some of the best numbers in the league that year.  Top 2 I think.  Sooooo, there's that little "anomaly".

I don't get this either.  Nobody is saying that having a great Corsi means you are definitely going to have a great team.  But there is a SIGNIFICANT relationship.

What if I told you that 80% of teams (it's probably even higher) that have excellent Corsi numbers are destined to be in the playoffs.

But only 20% of teams that have weak Corsi numbers are going to make the playoffs.

Which would you prefer?  Nobody is saying absolutes here.  I know I'd rather place my bets in the former category than that latter.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

So you put a solid goalie on that team and then what? They would have dominated?

They would have made the playoffs. I'd bet my life on that if I could.

Put it into perspective how poor Toskala was that season:

He put up a .874 saves percentage with the Toronto Maple Leafs.  This made him the worst goaltender in the league (who had any significant amount of ice time).  Replacement level goaltending had a saves percentage around .908 and Toskala let in nearly 40% more goals than that.  Poor goaltending significantly hurt Toronto?s chances.

http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/psh/comments/torontos_high_team_corsi

I know it's different eras - but that's close to getting you a Vezina in the 80s.

I know, it's pretty insane to see what SV%'s used to be for goalies considered some of the greats of their time.  Really hard to compare era's like that, but it's pretty shocking to see nonetheless.

 

[Joe S.]

There are only 2 teams in the post lockout era that were good enough to make the playoffs but were sunk due to goaltending - and that was the last 2 Sundin seasons. Every team since has been a shadow of the Quinn years up until last season.

This season is the first year in my history as a Leafs fan where they are WASTING quality goaltending.

 

[Joe S.]

So you put a solid goalie on that team and then what? They would have dominated?

They would have made the playoffs. I'd bet my life on that if I could.

Put it into perspective how poor Toskala was that season:

He put up a .874 saves percentage with the Toronto Maple Leafs.  This made him the worst goaltender in the league (who had any significant amount of ice time).  Replacement level goaltending had a saves percentage around .908 and Toskala let in nearly 40% more goals than that.  Poor goaltending significantly hurt Toronto?s chances.

http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/psh/comments/torontos_high_team_corsi

I know it's different eras - but that's close to getting you a Vezina in the 80s.

I know, it's pretty insane to see what SV%'s used to be for goalies considered some of the greats of their time.  Really hard to compare era's like that, but it's pretty shocking to see nonetheless.

The worst is Fuhr - I've bashed him countless times here - but how he's in the hall of fame is beyond me. He was still .903 or lower in the 90s...

 

[Tigger]

dunno if this was already posted...

@davidalter590
Carlyle on Smithson to waivers "we felt we have players ahead of him, simple as that"

 

[Champ Kind]

So you put a solid goalie on that team and then what? They would have dominated?

They would have made the playoffs. I'd bet my life on that if I could.

Oh, you most certainly can....