General Leafs Talk

[Joe S.]

I'd like to, in some way, offer some perspective if I can.

I truly feel that 'the age of the internet' has, in some way, ruined the joy of being a sports fan. Even I've been here since 2001, I think the post lockout analysis and discussions are dramatically different. I, for one, do not remember the goal by goal criticism of Leafs goaltenders - or the analysis of a season period by period...

I'm not saying it was better back then, but the micro criticism just seemed to be dialed down somewhat...

Anyway, what I wanted to show were some scores from a few seasons back - all losses:

Tampa 7-2
Buffalo 5-1
Florida 4-0
Boston 5-2
Philly 4-0
Philly 4-1
Ottawa 7-1
Anaheim 5-1
Philly 7-1
Montreal 4-0

And at the end of the season, Toronto finished with 45 wins - 3d most in the league and 103 points which points wise put them 5th overall. This was the 2003/2004 season, which I think almost all of us can agree may have been one of the best Leafs teams of the last 20 or so years...

What's my point? Well - that you can't sum up a season by 2 blow outs to the Bruins... it's such a long season, and I find the play by play by play hyper-analysis of each move in a game just overwhelming at times...

I'm not trying to be dramatic or call anyone out - I just miss the days when there was hope, or when it was fun to be excited about the Leafs...

 

[Redleaf]

No Tim Connolly at practice today.

Is this really happening again?  Already!?!

markhmasters: Ron Wilson says Tim Connolly is out 10 days to two weeks with an upper-body injury

I wonder if this is an aggravation of the same injury or a new one? If it's a new one, then this guy comes as advertised, just made of glass and that's unfortunate for us.

Maybe we could bring up Colborne, that would be awesome. Part of me wants to just let him destroy the AHL, but I have this feeling that our future 1st line center is playing with the Marlies as we speak and his name is Joe Colborne.

I think the key word here is "future", as in a year or two. I really don't see him making much of a difference if they put him on the first line now with Connolly out (again). My guess is Bozak drops into that spot, and Lombardi moves to centre the 3rd line. I just don't think Colbourne is ready to center the top line on the big club just yet. Maybe they call him up to center the 3rd line?

 

[Number 5]

I just miss the days when there was hope, or when it was fun to be excited about the Leafs...

October 1968?

 

[Joe S.]

I just miss the days when there was hope, or when it was fun to be excited about the Leafs...

October 1968?

If you want to be a smart ass fine... but 1998-2004 was a pretty awesome time to be a Leafs fan...

 

[Corn Flake]

I'm not trying to be dramatic or call anyone out - I just miss the days when there was hope, or when it was fun to be excited about the Leafs...

I have to tell you... taking a looong break from it all this summer was refreshing.  Staying out of the weeds of the micro-discussion has been a good thing.

 

[Fanatic]

I just miss the days when there was hope, or when it was fun to be excited about the Leafs...

October 1968?

If you want to be a smart ass fine... but 1998-2004 was a pretty awesome time to be a Leafs fan...

'93 and '94 were pretty good years too!

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'd like to, in some way, offer some perspective if I can.

I truly feel that 'the age of the internet' has, in some way, ruined the joy of being a sports fan. Even I've been here since 2001, I think the post lockout analysis and discussions are dramatically different. I, for one, do not remember the goal by goal criticism of Leafs goaltenders - or the analysis of a season period by period...

I'm not saying it was better back then, but the micro criticism just seemed to be dialed down somewhat...

Anyway, what I wanted to show were some scores from a few seasons back - all losses:

Tampa 7-2
Buffalo 5-1
Florida 4-0
Boston 5-2
Philly 4-0
Philly 4-1
Ottawa 7-1
Anaheim 5-1
Philly 7-1
Montreal 4-0

And at the end of the season, Toronto finished with 45 wins - 3d most in the league and 103 points which points wise put them 5th overall. This was the 2003/2004 season, which I think almost all of us can agree may have been one of the best Leafs teams of the last 20 or so years...

What's my point? Well - that you can't sum up a season by 2 blow outs to the Bruins... it's such a long season, and I find the play by play by play hyper-analysis of each move in a game just overwhelming at times...

I'm not trying to be dramatic or call anyone out - I just miss the days when there was hope, or when it was fun to be excited about the Leafs...

Totally agree.

Mostly it's almost always negative criticism. Why? I'm not sure, but I feel sometimes it appears as some are just too committed to negativity or like you say, hyper criticism. No team is going to be perfect during a season and we should be happy with our record right now. Do they have some glaring defensive problems? Yes, but I feel much better with getting behind our team, than just pointing out the negative aspects of our games constantly. It doesn't really help anything.

I miss things like Potvin29's threads about positivity. It's pretty bad that he would have to start a thread like that, but it makes a point, that some people like to hear the good things also.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'd like to, in some way, offer some perspective if I can.

I truly feel that 'the age of the internet' has, in some way, ruined the joy of being a sports fan. Even I've been here since 2001, I think the post lockout analysis and discussions are dramatically different. I, for one, do not remember the goal by goal criticism of Leafs goaltenders - or the analysis of a season period by period...

I'm not saying it was better back then, but the micro criticism just seemed to be dialed down somewhat...

Anyway, what I wanted to show were some scores from a few seasons back - all losses:

Tampa 7-2
Buffalo 5-1
Florida 4-0
Boston 5-2
Philly 4-0
Philly 4-1
Ottawa 7-1
Anaheim 5-1
Philly 7-1
Montreal 4-0

And at the end of the season, Toronto finished with 45 wins - 3d most in the league and 103 points which points wise put them 5th overall. This was the 2003/2004 season, which I think almost all of us can agree may have been one of the best Leafs teams of the last 20 or so years...

What's my point? Well - that you can't sum up a season by 2 blow outs to the Bruins... it's such a long season, and I find the play by play by play hyper-analysis of each move in a game just overwhelming at times...

I'm not trying to be dramatic or call anyone out - I just miss the days when there was hope, or when it was fun to be excited about the Leafs...

Agreed 100%.

 

[brothert]

FWIW, I think their strongest played game to date was the 3-2 loss versus Colorado.

You can throw stats around left and right but the team doesn't look right.  I think they are 'quick counterattacking' style of team that is easily pinned in their own end (which is a bit of an oxymoron IMO)

Special teams are awful and I wouldn't mind Eakins taking over as bench boss before this team goes on its gut wrenching losing stretch which I feel is coming, much like last year and the year before.

 

[Number 5]

I just miss the days when there was hope, or when it was fun to be excited about the Leafs...

October 1968?

If you want to be a smart ass fine... but 1998-2004 was a pretty awesome time to be a Leafs fan...

'93 and '94 were pretty good years too!

Totally being a smartass.

Hell, I've gotten excited about teams that went absolutely nowhere...

 

[Kin]

I just miss the days when there was hope, or when it was fun to be excited about the Leafs...

October 1968?

If you want to be a smart ass fine... but 1998-2004 was a pretty awesome time to be a Leafs fan...

But isn't that kind of the real point? I understand not liking the tenor of the change around here but I think it's pretty obvious that it's just a reaction to the team's performance.

I mean, yeah, if people weren't as down or inclined to pick away at the smaller things then it was probably because the larger issues were pretty rosy. People are probably going to be less critical of the goaltending when the goaltending is year-in, year-out top of the league and in the hands of future hall-of-famers.

I've been here over that span and, personally, I don't know if people here have become any more detail oriented or any less forgiving but I think what we've seen is that same critical eye turn from something a lot of fun as a hockey fan to something that's not very fun at all as a hockey fan.

If someone now says "The Leafs' #1 centre is friggin' clown shoes" when they back then said "What an awesome #1 centre we have" it's not the cynicism of age, it's the proper application of eyeballs.

 

[Hank Yarbo]

I'd like to, in some way, offer some perspective if I can.

I truly feel that 'the age of the internet' has, in some way, ruined the joy of being a sports fan. Even I've been here since 2001, I think the post lockout analysis and discussions are dramatically different. I, for one, do not remember the goal by goal criticism of Leafs goaltenders - or the analysis of a season period by period...

I  think there's a lot of truth in this statement. In years past, before we had access to the internet, I didn't come to this site or any hockey site for "post game analysis" nor did I watch all sports stations like TSN or listen to all Toronto sports radio stations. If the Leafs lost, that was it until the next game and I think I was a happier leaf fan back then.

Before it was only close friends who were fans of the Wings or Habs who razzed you about a game. Now we have access to millions of trolls on websites and in the comment section of articles spouting off reasons why the Leafs suck and why we suck for liking them.

I don't remember putting much stock in a loss, even a blowout game, I tried to keep everything in proportion. But the sports media, especially out of Toronto, is so full of "the sky is falling" propoganda for each Leaf loss it seems almost designed to make the fans feel as if the season is lost with each tick of the "L" column.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

If someone now says "The Leafs' #1 centre is friggin' clown shoes" when they back then said "What an awesome #1 centre we have" it's not the cynicism of age, it's the proper application of eyeballs.

I believe "clown casts" is presently the more accurate assessment.

 

[cw]

I don't remember putting much stock in a loss, even a blowout game, I tried to keep everything in proportion. But the sports media, especially out of Toronto, is so full of "the sky is falling" propoganda for each Leaf loss it seems almost designed to make the fans feel as if the season is lost with each tick of the "L" column.

Although the old site is gone, if there's one thing that stood out during those pre lockout years, it was a bunch of folks who fell into "the sky is falling" syndrome after a Leafs loss. Countless game day threads had Chicken Little images, etc.

So I'm not convinced that's changed much. If anything it seems to be less because expectations are not as high as they were prior to the lockout.

As for the media, it's still not very good but it was terrible before. Cox & Simmons have toned it down some. Strachan is gone. Berger's less visible. But we still see some pretty awful coverage or analysis.

 

[Madferret]

As for the media, it's still not very good but it was terrible before. Cox & Simmons have toned it down some. Strachan is gone. Berger's less visible. But we still see some pretty awful coverage or analysis.

What happened to Berger anyways?

 

[Bender]

I don't remember putting much stock in a loss, even a blowout game, I tried to keep everything in proportion. But the sports media, especially out of Toronto, is so full of "the sky is falling" propoganda for each Leaf loss it seems almost designed to make the fans feel as if the season is lost with each tick of the "L" column.

Although the old site is gone, if there's one thing that stood out during those pre lockout years, it was a bunch of folks who fell into "the sky is falling" syndrome after a Leafs loss. Countless game day threads had Chicken Little images, etc.

So I'm not convinced that's changed much. If anything it seems to be less because expectations are not as high as they were prior to the lockout.

As for the media, it's still not very good but it was terrible before. Cox & Simmons have toned it down some. Strachan is gone. Berger's less visible. But we still see some pretty awful coverage or analysis.

I'm glad we have guys like Mirtle and Siegel as some of the newer beat writers, though. Mirtle's a lot better than expected imo, and I only recently discovered pension plan puppets, which can be a good resource for analytical breakdowns of the Leafs' play.

 

[cw]

I don't remember putting much stock in a loss, even a blowout game, I tried to keep everything in proportion. But the sports media, especially out of Toronto, is so full of "the sky is falling" propoganda for each Leaf loss it seems almost designed to make the fans feel as if the season is lost with each tick of the "L" column.

Although the old site is gone, if there's one thing that stood out during those pre lockout years, it was a bunch of folks who fell into "the sky is falling" syndrome after a Leafs loss. Countless game day threads had Chicken Little images, etc.

So I'm not convinced that's changed much. If anything it seems to be less because expectations are not as high as they were prior to the lockout.

As for the media, it's still not very good but it was terrible before. Cox & Simmons have toned it down some. Strachan is gone. Berger's less visible. But we still see some pretty awful coverage or analysis.

I'm glad we have guys like Mirtle and Siegel as some of the newer beat writers, though. Mirtle's a lot better than expected imo, and I only recently discovered pension plan puppets, which can be a good resource for analytical breakdowns of the Leafs' play.

If there has been any improvement in the media, it's come from guys like that who started out on the net and migrated to more formal positions in the media. Much of their work is better than what we were fed by the papers. Some of it has been very thoughtful, original and well researched analysis - much better quality than pre internet.

Back in the early 90s for example, I used to track the Leafs with word processing documents to record/analyze trades and stats, etc pulled out of the paper. Today, if the Leafs pick up a player, within a couple of hours, we've got his scouting reports, career stats, a bunch of past interviews/articles, video highlights, etc, etc - an incredible amount of info on the guy. So that's a change for the better and probably has shifted some of the dialogue because we have those details to digest and discuss. Largely, I think that's been a good thing.

And the pace at which that info arrives is kind of remarkable relative to the past. In years gone by, most of us wouldn't find out Connolly was hurt until the 1st intermission of the Panthers game or something like that. Within minutes, we knew Kulemin got hit in the face by a puck and had to leave practice yesterday (he's ok). Maybe some of that is overkill but I prefer that problem vs the past.

 

[Zee]

As for the media, it's still not very good but it was terrible before. Cox & Simmons have toned it down some. Strachan is gone. Berger's less visible. But we still see some pretty awful coverage or analysis.

What happened to Berger anyways?

Writing a column for the National Post.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/tag/howard-berger/

 

[cw]

As for the media, it's still not very good but it was terrible before. Cox & Simmons have toned it down some. Strachan is gone. Berger's less visible. But we still see some pretty awful coverage or analysis.

What happened to Berger anyways?

He was his bitter self and basically fell on his sword with kamikaze behavior at the FAN590. So they dumped him.

 

[Erndog]

I don't remember putting much stock in a loss, even a blowout game, I tried to keep everything in proportion. But the sports media, especially out of Toronto, is so full of "the sky is falling" propoganda for each Leaf loss it seems almost designed to make the fans feel as if the season is lost with each tick of the "L" column.

Although the old site is gone, if there's one thing that stood out during those pre lockout years, it was a bunch of folks who fell into "the sky is falling" syndrome after a Leafs loss. Countless game day threads had Chicken Little images, etc.

So I'm not convinced that's changed much. If anything it seems to be less because expectations are not as high as they were prior to the lockout.

As for the media, it's still not very good but it was terrible before. Cox & Simmons have toned it down some. Strachan is gone. Berger's less visible. But we still see some pretty awful coverage or analysis.

I'm glad we have guys like Mirtle and Siegel as some of the newer beat writers, though. Mirtle's a lot better than expected imo, and I only recently discovered pension plan puppets, which can be a good resource for analytical breakdowns of the Leafs' play.

If there has been any improvement in the media, it's come from guys like that who started out on the net and migrated to more formal positions in the media. Much of their work is better than what we were fed by the papers. Some of it has been very thoughtful, original and well researched analysis - much better quality than pre internet.

Back in the early 90s for example, I used to track the Leafs with word processing documents to record/analyze trades and stats, etc pulled out of the paper. Today, if the Leafs pick up a player, within a couple of hours, we've got his scouting reports, career stats, a bunch of past interviews/articles, video highlights, etc, etc - an incredible amount of info on the guy. So that's a change for the better and probably has shifted some of the dialogue because we have those details to digest and discuss. Largely, I think that's been a good thing.

And the pace at which that info arrives is kind of remarkable relative to the past. In years gone by, most of us wouldn't find out Connolly was hurt until the 1st intermission of the Panthers game or something like that. Within minutes, we knew Kulemin got hit in the face by a puck and had to leave practice yesterday (he's ok). Maybe some of that is overkill but I prefer that problem vs the past.

That's why I like twitter.

Before, you would notice someone would leave the game or the commentator mentions someone going to the locker room and you had to wait a while for word on what it was.

Now?  I have my iphone right next to me and within minutes you get some sort of update.

Just the other game (against CBJ) I noticed Grabovski left the game (lombardi took a shift or two with Kulemin and Grabs) and I tweeted MattIaboni what happened and he responded it looked like an equipment thing, and sure enough, Grabs was back not long after.

Twitter has really excelled the pace at which we receive news.