Gleason traded to Toronto for Liles

[AvroArrow]

I'm really not one to dwell on the past or point out things that could have or should have been done, but in this case this move just seems mentally challenged. Seems like the Leafs should have just bought out Liles and kept Komisarek for one more season instead of having to also give up a prospect for what is essentially the same player for another 3 years.

Not that I disagree with the idea, but would everyone else have fit under the cap with a Liles buyout vs Komisarek buyout?  The difference is only 625k, but I'm not sure how tight we were at the beginning of the season.

(Note: I would have preferred to keep Komisarek, not sign Clarkson, and buyout Liles, in which case, we would have been fine)

 

[moon111]

Liles could be hurt/not as mobile as he once was.  God knows he wasn't the Liles Colorado had was he?  Komisarek might just be a bigger booze hound then Dany Heatley for all we know.  Maybe Carolina was getting tired of Gleason hitting on their wives?  There could be reasons these deals are made that we don't know.

 

[leafplasma]

He does provide a physical element but I feel like he is going to frustrate a lot of people because he isn't fast enough to recover from attempts to hit guys along the boards.  It's going to be like watching Mark Fraser/Mike Komisarek who would hit people but get horribly out of position because of it and become a liability because they took themselves out of the play and can't get back into it.

Tim Gleason isn't that at all.  I can't believe you would lump Gleason in with those two as far as mobility goes.  I think once you see him a few games you will realize that although he is not Liles in terms of skating goes he skates very well for a defensive dman, very good skater in fact.

 

[bustaheims]

Tim Gleason isn't that at all.  I can't believe you would lump Gleason in with those two as far as mobility goes.  I think once you see him a few games you will realize that although he is not Liles in terms of skating goes he skates very well for a defensive dman, very good skater in fact.

If Gleason really was the calibre of defenceman you think he is, do you really think the Leafs could have acquired him for a ~$4M healthy scratch and a prospect whose ceiling is minor league depth defenceman?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

It's just weird.  I believe we gave up the best player in the deal (Liles) but we had to take on more cap hit and throw in a prospect to boot to get it done.  In the long run it won't matter but it feels like we got hosed???

Yes, because having a bunch of offensively minded, soft, puck moving dman is clearly working for the Leafs this season.  Gleason is a mobile, aggressive, defensive dman who has played on the international stage and has been a leader, nope we don't need a player like that.

I'm not sure you've actually watched Gleason recently.  If you have, perhaps you can add some context to your posts by providing how much time you've watched of his play?

Because this is a scouting report from a Canes blogger who has watched him closely:

Gleason has been a staple on the Hurricanes blue line for years, but he has not looked like himself over the last two seasons. He plays a rough style of hockey and has taken on a lot of mileage over his career and it looks like this has finally caught up with him. Shutdown defensemen typically do not age well and while Gleason is only 30 years old, he looks slower than usual and has had to miss time with an assortment of injuries. I showed some concern about him before the season started because he was trending in the wrong direction last year and his play has only gotten worse since then.

For most of the year, Gleason has been stuck on the Hurricanes third pairing and when he is on the ice, the Canes have been getting heavily outshot at even strength, especially at even strength. The coaching staff has tried to help him out by using him with a number of different partners and giving him sheltered minutes, but nothing has seemed to work. His ability to suppress shots has been among the worst on the team and his territorial numbers are comparable with the likes of Mike Komisarek and Ryan Murphy. Considering that these two players have gotten similar minutes to Gleason, that isn't a good thing.

Gleason played a key role on the Hurricanes in year's past as their key shutdown defenseman and an alternate captain but right now, his play has been on par with that of a third-pairing defenseman and the Canes can't afford to pay him over $4 mil. for the next three years for that. Not when the team has other needs.

http://www.shutdownline.com/hurricanes/statistical-analysis/hurricanes-swap-tim-gleason-for-john-michael-liles.html

 

[leafplasma]

Tim Gleason isn't that at all.  I can't believe you would lump Gleason in with those two as far as mobility goes.  I think once you see him a few games you will realize that although he is not Liles in terms of skating goes he skates very well for a defensive dman, very good skater in fact.

If Gleason really was the calibre of defenceman you think he is, do you really think the Leafs could have acquired him for a ~$4M healthy scratch and a prospect whose ceiling is minor league depth defenceman?

His play has slipped somewhat sure and after you hand out a 4 mill, 4 year deal to a guy you tend to hate the guy because of what you are paying him if his play slips.  Look at how many hated Phaneuf, his first couple seasons here because of what he was getting paid, it didn't mean he wasn't the best dman on the team though.  However, when that dollar value is tied up anyway in Liles who had become an untradeable AHL player, I tend to throw those thoughts out the window.  I now am looking at Gleason as a player that can help this D and I applaud Nonis for not taken the stubborn outlook that many of the posters on here seem to have taken. He has made a bad situation hopefully better.  I hope Gleason will take this change in scenery and revert to somewhat of his 2010 US olympic team form and even if he doesn't I think he still will help this team. 

What it comes down to Busta is this, with cheaper, younger better versions of Liles in Gardiner and Reilly already here, Liles wasn't going be used.  So Nonis took a chance on Gleason and I fail to see the risk in this and frankly I would be disappointed if he didn't take this deal.  Try to look at the logistics of this deal and forget about the Gleason contract.  Yes, there is more work that needs to be done to the Leaf back end but this opportunity was a no brainer in my books.

 

[leafplasma]

It's just weird.  I believe we gave up the best player in the deal (Liles) but we had to take on more cap hit and throw in a prospect to boot to get it done.  In the long run it won't matter but it feels like we got hosed???

Yes, because having a bunch of offensively minded, soft, puck moving dman is clearly working for the Leafs this season.  Gleason is a mobile, aggressive, defensive dman who has played on the international stage and has been a leader, nope we don't need a player like that.

I'm not sure you've actually watched Gleason recently.  If you have, perhaps you can add some context to your posts by providing how much time you've watched of his play?

Because this is a scouting report from a Canes blogger who has watched him closely:

Gleason has been a staple on the Hurricanes blue line for years, but he has not looked like himself over the last two seasons. He plays a rough style of hockey and has taken on a lot of mileage over his career and it looks like this has finally caught up with him. Shutdown defensemen typically do not age well and while Gleason is only 30 years old, he looks slower than usual and has had to miss time with an assortment of injuries. I showed some concern about him before the season started because he was trending in the wrong direction last year and his play has only gotten worse since then.

For most of the year, Gleason has been stuck on the Hurricanes third pairing and when he is on the ice, the Canes have been getting heavily outshot at even strength, especially at even strength. The coaching staff has tried to help him out by using him with a number of different partners and giving him sheltered minutes, but nothing has seemed to work. His ability to suppress shots has been among the worst on the team and his territorial numbers are comparable with the likes of Mike Komisarek and Ryan Murphy. Considering that these two players have gotten similar minutes to Gleason, that isn't a good thing.

Gleason played a key role on the Hurricanes in year's past as their key shutdown defenseman and an alternate captain but right now, his play has been on par with that of a third-pairing defenseman and the Canes can't afford to pay him over $4 mil. for the next three years for that. Not when the team has other needs.

http://www.shutdownline.com/hurricanes/statistical-analysis/hurricanes-swap-tim-gleason-for-john-michael-liles.html

I have the NHL centre ice package and watch a ton of hockey,  I do like the Canes and watch them quite often due to their pen chance for having ex leafs on their squad.  Honestly, this season I will admit I have only seen the Canes when they play the Leafs.  So this year I have not seen much of Gleason, he hasn't played much either due to injury.  Sounds to me like this blogger is also a little upset with his play due to his contract which is entirely understandable.  Like I said above, I am not looking at this contract in this deal due to it already being tied up in Liles.  I still take this deal Potvin and I do love Gleason's game, no risk for me. Like it has been said worst case scenario, Gleason doesn't play big minutes.  Liles, I don't like as a 5th or 6th guy but Gleason fits that bill much better even if he doesn't revert to his old form.  If he rebounds he will be top 4 on this team, no question.  Don't look at the contract here, we made that mistake when Liles inked so what is done is done.  I just want our d to be better and in my eyes it just did.

 

[moon111]

This is what I think of your Corsi.

One thing that amazes me is everyone has already penciled him in as the 6th defenseman, when Carlyle might stick him with Phaneuf for all we know.

 

[Bullfrog]

Where Carlyle chooses to play him has no bearing on his standing among the other defensemen.

 

[bustaheims]

Where Carlyle chooses to play him has no bearing on his standing among the other defensemen.

This. Being a #6 defenceman is less a function of how a player is used and more a function of a player's perceived ability.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, I mean, if anything the idea that Carlyle might be tempted to play him too much makes him less valuable, not more.

 

[mr grieves]

This is what I think of your Corsi.

Oh, is that where our new $4m defensemen got a career-derailing injury? Small world.

One thing that amazes me is everyone has already penciled him in as the 6th defenseman, when Carlyle might stick him with Phaneuf for all we know.

Yeah, the assumption that he pushes Ranger or Fraser out of the line-up doesn't adequately account for Uncle Randy's trusted tools. As Nonis said, this gives coach more options with the pairings. And who among us doesn't think Jake Gardiner could learn a thing or two from the press box?

 

[leafplasma]

This is what I think of your Corsi.

One thing that amazes me is everyone has already penciled him in as the 6th defenseman, when Carlyle might stick him with Phaneuf for all we know.

That is the thing when your playing in a bad situation like what is going on in Carolina the last couple seasons. Cam Ward has also been injured a lot and hasn't been himself when he has been in there.  It is hard for a guy that had just signed a big contract and has also battled injuries himself to try to carry this team on his back.  That is a tall order for a shut down dman, much easier for a flashy guy to still impress with end to end rushes.  I really hope that he turns things around in Toronto because he could be very valuable to this club.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Now that Steve Ott and Gleason are in the same division its going to get real interesting playing the Sabres! 

 

[L K]

He does provide a physical element but I feel like he is going to frustrate a lot of people because he isn't fast enough to recover from attempts to hit guys along the boards.  It's going to be like watching Mark Fraser/Mike Komisarek who would hit people but get horribly out of position because of it and become a liability because they took themselves out of the play and can't get back into it.

Tim Gleason isn't that at all.  I can't believe you would lump Gleason in with those two as far as mobility goes.  I think once you see him a few games you will realize that although he is not Liles in terms of skating goes he skates very well for a defensive dman, very good skater in fact.

Unfortunately, he is.  When he came into the league he was a very mobile defenseman but injuries have taken a huge toll on him.  He started to slow down in the 2011-2012 season and has continued a steady decline since then.  I wish that he still skated like he used to.  I really do.  Carolina wouldn't have traded him if he did.  Defensive defensemen who rely on their mobility rather than pure positional defense tend not to age very well when they slow down.

Komisarek is likely on his last contract this year because his speed fell apart.  Interestingly enough around the same age that Gleason started his decline.  It's not uncommon for these guys who go all out for their team to fall apart early.

 

[leafplasma]

He does provide a physical element but I feel like he is going to frustrate a lot of people because he isn't fast enough to recover from attempts to hit guys along the boards.  It's going to be like watching Mark Fraser/Mike Komisarek who would hit people but get horribly out of position because of it and become a liability because they took themselves out of the play and can't get back into it.

Tim Gleason isn't that at all.  I can't believe you would lump Gleason in with those two as far as mobility goes.  I think once you see him a few games you will realize that although he is not Liles in terms of skating goes he skates very well for a defensive dman, very good skater in fact.

Unfortunately, he is.  When he came into the league he was a very mobile defenseman but injuries have taken a huge toll on him.  He started to slow down in the 2011-2012 season and has continued a steady decline since then.  I wish that he still skated like he used to.  I really do.  Carolina wouldn't have traded him if he did.  Defensive defensemen who rely on their mobility rather than pure positional defense tend not to age very well when they slow down.

Komisarek is likely on his last contract this year because his speed fell apart.  Interestingly enough around the same age that Gleason started his decline.  It's not uncommon for these guys who go all out for their team to fall apart early.

Since his olympic appearance in the 2010 season, Gleason followed that up with two seasons where he played in all 82 games. Gleason then missed just 6 games last season.  This season has been an absolute write off due to his injury situation.  Maybe the concussion will do him in like it seemed to do Kaberle in and what you say may be true.  He hasn't been healthy this season and has been eased back into the picture.  The Canes haven't been good either and Gleason has played with garbage like Komi at times. Last season I will be damned if you are going to tell me he was as slow as Fraser and Komi, I know better than that.

 

[moon111]

The Leafs have done pretty good with 'damaged' goods as far as I'm concerned.

 

[mr grieves]

The Leafs have done pretty good with 'damaged' goods as far as I'm concerned.

So, now that it's clear Clarkson isn't the second coming of Gary Roberts, we'll bestow the title on Tim Gleason?

Unless you put 'damaged' in quotes in order to make an abstraction of it, and find something in common with Raymond, MacArthur, Franson, Lupul, Grabovski, Kessel, and other castoffs (many of whom constitute the core)... well, but, you know, Gleason is actually damaged. 

 

[losveratos]

The Leafs have done pretty good with 'damaged' goods as far as I'm concerned.

So, now that it's clear Clarkson isn't the second coming of Gary Roberts, we'll bestow the title on Tim Gleason?

Unless you put 'damaged' in quotes in order to make an abstraction of it, and find something in common with Raymond, MacArthur, Franson, Lupul, Grabovski, Kessel, and other castoffs (many of whom constitute the core)... well, but, you know, Gleason is actually damaged.

I think he means the likes of the Lombardi trade and the Lupul trade. Both of which brought in Franson and Gradiner respectively. This time however we gave up nothing and didn't need to take a cap dump so the reward is far less. But I doubt moon111 is trying to say he's the next gary roberts. That's ridiculous to even begin to think about.

Also "damaged" as in previously injured a fair amount would be my guess.

 

[Joe S.]

All I know is that despite Carolina's record, I trust Rutherford more than Nonis. So I don't have high hopes for the outcome of this trade to be favourable for the Leafs.