Goaltending conundrum

[ZBBM]

Gustavsson, as I've pointed out multiple times, just came off a stretch of 20 games with a sv% of .922, so not sure at what point he was ever much better than he was in that stretch.

And it was all undone in 62 minutes on Tuesday.  Look, it was nice that he had a good stretch.  However, during that stretch the goals that he let in were still weak.  He seems to have the ability to make the great saves, but he can't stop simple shots and his five hole is as vulnerable as Demi Moore.

Nonsense.  You're just channeling Damian Cox here.

One awful, godawful, I-want-to-scream-awful game proves exactly nothing, and any manager who makes decisions based on one game should be shown the door.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Gustavsson, as I've pointed out multiple times, just came off a stretch of 20 games with a sv% of .922, so not sure at what point he was ever much better than he was in that stretch.

And it was all undone in 62 minutes on Tuesday.  Look, it was nice that he had a good stretch.  However, during that stretch the goals that he let in were still weak.  He seems to have the ability to make the great saves, but he can't stop simple shots and his five hole is as vulnerable as Demi Moore.

Nonsense.  You're just channeling Damian Cox here.

One awful, godawful, I-want-to-scream-awful game proves exactly nothing, and any manager who makes decisions based on one game should be shown the door.

Normally you give a guy benefit of the doubt but Gus is 27 and it is his 3 year with this team. Also, he has shown over this period to have a tendency for giving up weak goals.

 

[lc9]

Nonsense.  You're just channeling Damian Cox here.

One awful, godawful, I-want-to-scream-awful game proves exactly nothing, and any manager who makes decisions based on one game should be shown the door.

No I would just look at his career numbers:

38-40-13 (so 38-53) 2.97 GAA and a .900 SV %

We need a real goalie, these are backup, at best, numbers.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Nonsense.  You're just channeling Damian Cox here.

One awful, godawful, I-want-to-scream-awful game proves exactly nothing, and any manager who makes decisions based on one game should be shown the door.

No I would just look at his career numbers:

38-40-13 (so 38-53) 2.97 GAA and a .900 SV %

We need a real goalie, these are backup, at best, numbers.

This really says it all.

 

[Tigger]

Man, what a puff piece by Feschuk today on Reimer.  "James Reimer Leafs Nation Believes in You!"  I guess the Leafs cut off Feschuk from any real news after he went to Reimer's mom for medical info.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1135399--feschuk-james-reimer-leafs-nation-believes-in-you

Jeebus, 'I'm lighting a candle at church'...

 

[Tigger]

Nonsense.  You're just channeling Damian Cox here.

One awful, godawful, I-want-to-scream-awful game proves exactly nothing, and any manager who makes decisions based on one game should be shown the door.

No I would just look at his career numbers:

38-40-13 (so 38-53) 2.97 GAA and a .900 SV %

We need a real goalie, these are backup, at best, numbers.

Well, he is the back up and those numbers reflect some abysmal defensive play over the course of those years as well.

Like Burke said yesterday without him the Leafs aren't in the playoff hunt now, full stop.

 

[lc9]

Well, he is the back up and those numbers reflect some abysmal defensive play over the course of those years as well.

Like Burke said yesterday without him the Leafs aren't in the playoff hunt now, full stop.

Let's be clear here, in no way in Jonas a backup goalie for the Maple Leafs, and neither is Reimer.  They are both fighting each day to be the number 1, it is wide open for the taking. 

There was a debate going on a week back or so, discussing how the bad defense is more cause for concern compared to how the goalie plays.  I was fortunate enough to play some pretty competitive hockey growing up, and I got to see some crappy goaltending and how it effects a team.  I fully believe that in the leafs case, the whole team morale is down, and that stems from goaltending in this case, imo.  How many times do the leafs score a goal to tie it up or finally take a lead and then the other team comes down and scores on a wrister from the dot?

The team sinks and is deflated after goals like this, and in the leafs case it happens almost every game.  The goalies have to play better, the problem starts there way before it starts with the poor defense.

 

[We_Miss_Sundin]

I agree, why should we suffer through the development of 2 sub par goalies? The team is ready to move to the next step and finally make the playoffs, if neither goalie is able to keep up then Burkie should find one elsewhere...

 

[Corn Flake]

Man, what a puff piece by Feschuk today on Reimer.  "James Reimer Leafs Nation Believes in You!"  I guess the Leafs cut off Feschuk from any real news after he went to Reimer's mom for medical info.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1135399--feschuk-james-reimer-leafs-nation-believes-in-you

Ugh.

Why oh why has he not gone back to writing about basketball.  Horrid.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Nonsense.  You're just channeling Damian Cox here.

One awful, godawful, I-want-to-scream-awful game proves exactly nothing, and any manager who makes decisions based on one game should be shown the door.

No I would just look at his career numbers:

38-40-13 (so 38-53) 2.97 GAA and a .900 SV %

We need a real goalie, these are backup, at best, numbers.

Well, he is the back up and those numbers reflect some abysmal defensive play over the course of those years as well.

Like Burke said yesterday without him the Leafs aren't in the playoff hunt now, full stop.

Sure but with a better goalie that doesn't let in soft goals constantly they could be top of the conference.

 

[ZBBM]

Nonsense.  You're just channeling Damian Cox here.

One awful, godawful, I-want-to-scream-awful game proves exactly nothing, and any manager who makes decisions based on one game should be shown the door.

No I would just look at his career numbers:

38-40-13 (so 38-53) 2.97 GAA and a .900 SV %

We need a real goalie, these are backup, at best, numbers.

So you are agreeing with me, then.

Right?

 

[Redleaf]

To paraphrase myself from the GDT, I really believe the Leafs need to find a veteran goalie that will bring stability to this team for at least the next 2 seasons.  Reimer needs that veteran presence to help bring along his game and his confidence like he had when Giggy was here last year.

Gus won't sign up for this nonsense again, and probably wont be offered a new contract regardless. In all likelihood he's now playing his last few string of games as a Leaf.

Burke really should have went out and found a veteran months ago when Reimer's recovery got derailed. Now he's under the gun to find the right guy for the job.

 

[lc9]

Nonsense.  You're just channeling Damian Cox here.

One awful, godawful, I-want-to-scream-awful game proves exactly nothing, and any manager who makes decisions based on one game should be shown the door.

No I would just look at his career numbers:

38-40-13 (so 38-53) 2.97 GAA and a .900 SV %

We need a real goalie, these are backup, at best, numbers.

So you are agreeing with me, then.

Right?

If you think Gustavson shouldn't be a goalie for the Leafs, than yes.

 

[cw]

Former Leafs goaltending coach, Steve McKichan, weighs in:
http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20120223_002430_9740

He feels Gustavsson is done as a potential starter. He feels Allaire is coaching an approach that won't work in today's NHL. He doesn't feel that Scrivens, Rynnas or Owuya have to potential to be a NHL starter. He says that Reimer may become a starter over the next couple of years.

Pretty harsh - maybe sour grapes given the Leafs fired him. Can't say I agree with all of it.

To me, Burke saying he's considering looking outside for goaltending help supports some of what he's saying in terms of where these goalies are right now.

I do agree with Burke that we wouldn't have anything to talk about if Gus hadn't provided a bunch of good games. I doubt Gus is going to ever be consistent enough to be a starter but find it impossible to be absolutely certain of anything because the position is so hard to predict - even with established NHLers.

But I would agree with Burke & McKichan that this season, they don't have good enough goaltending to accomplish much even if they squeak into the playoffs. Some of that is blurred by weak team defence.

If I were the GM, I'd be a seller between now and the deadline because they lack the goaltending and team defence to realistically accomplish anything in the playoffs. It has to be very unlikely for them to land a quality starter before the deadline.

 

[Tigger]

Well, he is the back up and those numbers reflect some abysmal defensive play over the course of those years as well.

Like Burke said yesterday without him the Leafs aren't in the playoff hunt now, full stop.

Let's be clear here, in no way in Jonas a backup goalie for the Maple Leafs, and neither is Reimer.  They are both fighting each day to be the number 1, it is wide open for the taking. 

The team sinks and is deflated after goals like this, and in the leafs case it happens almost every game.  The goalies have to play better, the problem starts there way before it starts with the poor defense.

Well fine, let's be clear, Burke himself said Jonas 'stepped in' and saved their season, that doesn't describe a view towards a starter. The numbers he's been posting this year, his play from that pov, have been fine and we shouldn't lose sight of that.

This is a hot button topic that ignores how well Jonas played for long stretches without giving up anything weak when the team was lousy in front of him going back 3 years, it's a two way street, one horrible game by a goalie doesn't change the fact that the Leafs trade chances and don't defend very well for the most part.

I agree the Leafs need better goaltending but I'm not ready to shoot them as if they're lame just yet. If they make a change, so be it, keeping in mind that Reimer has been worse this year I'm not sure what they do with that.

 

[The Red Polar Bear]

To paraphrase myself from the GDT, I really believe the Leafs need to find a veteran goalie that will bring stability to this team for at least the next 2 seasons. Reimer needs that veteran presence to help bring along his game and his confidence like he had when Giggy was here last year.

Gus won't sign up for this nonsense again, and probably wont be offered a new contract regardless. In all likelihood he's now playing his last few string of games as a Leaf.

Burke really should have went out and found a veteran months ago when Reimer's recovery got derailed. Now he's under the gun to find the right guy for the job.

My answer for this is Vokoun.

-UFA this year, making 1.5M since nobody wanted him last season. Will almost certainly cost more than that, but not an insane amount.
-WSH will likely not be retaining him with Neuvrith and Holtby splitting time next year.
-35y.o. or so, should be able to be a good mentor having played behind shoddy defence after his time in Florida

 

[Bender]

To paraphrase myself from the GDT, I really believe the Leafs need to find a veteran goalie that will bring stability to this team for at least the next 2 seasons. Reimer needs that veteran presence to help bring along his game and his confidence like he had when Giggy was here last year.

Gus won't sign up for this nonsense again, and probably wont be offered a new contract regardless. In all likelihood he's now playing his last few string of games as a Leaf.

Burke really should have went out and found a veteran months ago when Reimer's recovery got derailed. Now he's under the gun to find the right guy for the job.

My answer for this is Vokoun.

-UFA this year, making 1.5M since nobody wanted him last season. Will almost certainly cost more than that, but not an insane amount.
-WSH will likely not be retaining him with Neuvrith and Holtby splitting time next year.
-35y.o. or so, should be able to be a good mentor having played behind shoddy defence after his time in Florida

Jaroslav Halak.

Expendable because St. Louis has Elliott as their starter.
27, will be a good goaltender for a long time from now
Proven winner.

Secondary: Josh Harding? I think he could be good and had possibly for cheap.

 

[ZBBM]

Nonsense.  You're just channeling Damian Cox here.

One awful, godawful, I-want-to-scream-awful game proves exactly nothing, and any manager who makes decisions based on one game should be shown the door.

No I would just look at his career numbers:

38-40-13 (so 38-53) 2.97 GAA and a .900 SV %

We need a real goalie, these are backup, at best, numbers.

So you are agreeing with me, then.

Right?

If you think Gustavson shouldn't be a goalie for the Leafs, than yes.

Let me break this down for you.

What you claimed is that he had blown everything based on one bad game.  I said nonsense.  You responded with a bunch of career stats.  Since you ignored my point, I suggested, half-facetiously, that your response is a tacit agreement with me.  Now you've responded with another non sequitur.

Do you understand that we are arguing about whether it's valid to make a judgment on a whole career based on one game?  I said no.  You said yes.

That's one question: the question we are supposed to be discussing.  The questions of whether Gustavsson is any good, or should be the goalie of the Leafs, are different questions.

 

[ZBBM]

Former Leafs goaltending coach, Steve McKichan, weighs in:
http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20120223_002430_9740

He feels Gustavsson is done as a potential starter. He feels Allaire is coaching an approach that won't work in today's NHL. He doesn't feel that Scrivens, Rynnas or Owuya have to potential to be a NHL starter. He says that Reimer may become a starter over the next couple of years.

Pretty harsh - maybe sour grapes given the Leafs fired him. Can't say I agree with all of it.

To me, Burke saying he's considering looking outside for goaltending help supports some of what he's saying in terms of where these goalies are right now.

I do agree with Burke that we wouldn't have anything to talk about if Gus hadn't provided a bunch of good games. I doubt Gus is going to ever be consistent enough to be a starter but find it impossible to be absolutely certain of anything because the position is so hard to predict - even with established NHLers.

But I would agree with Burke & McKichan that this season, they don't have good enough goaltending to accomplish much even if they squeak into the playoffs. Some of that is blurred by weak team defence.

If I were the GM, I'd be a seller between now and the deadline because they lack the goaltending and team defence to realistically accomplish anything in the playoffs. It has to be very unlikely for them to land a quality starter before the deadline.

This is close to my position, except I'm more in the camp that if we could get Nash (or Ryan) for a not-too-outrageous price I'd do it.  I'm also OK with standing pat.  Less happy with dealing Grabs because he's been our best forward, all round, these last 2 years.  But if they feel the re-signing price will be too high, then I can see him going before the 27th.

The trouble with being an unabashed seller at the deadline is that you are basically cutting Wilson's throat by giving up on the playoffs.  And I don't think Burke will be able to put aside his friendship to do that.

 

[bustaheims]

Secondary: Josh Harding? I think he could be good and had possibly for cheap.

My concerns with Harding is how much is he a product of playing behind a solid defensive team in Minnesota? He's a UFA this summer, so, the Leafs might be able to pick him up at no talent cost, but, I worry he could end up being another Toskala type situation (or, in terms of goalies looking good in Minnesota, Manny Fernandez).

As for Halak, I'm not sure St Louis moves him out because Elliott's had a good season with them. If anything, that's a decision that they likely don't make until the middle of next season.